From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Daniel Colascione Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Preview: portable dumper Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2016 14:28:25 -0800 Message-ID: References: <047a67ec-9e29-7e4e-0fb0-24c3e59b5886@dancol.org> <83zikjxt1j.fsf@gnu.org> <8360n6ruzu.fsf@gnu.org> <834m2nplmb.fsf@gnu.org> <83inr2oje6.fsf@gnu.org> <83bmwuogfb.fsf@gnu.org> <878trydrbo.fsf@red-bean.com> <83a8cem1eq.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1480717755 13124 195.159.176.226 (2 Dec 2016 22:29:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 22:29:15 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Karl Fogel , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 02 23:29:11 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cCwKL-0002iY-UL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 02 Dec 2016 23:29:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36804 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cCwKP-0001sD-TB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 02 Dec 2016 17:29:13 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37217) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cCwJl-0001o6-R4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Dec 2016 17:28:34 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cCwJk-00070w-Us for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Dec 2016 17:28:33 -0500 Original-Received: from dancol.org ([2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:adf3]:54112) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cCwJk-00070o-LE; Fri, 02 Dec 2016 17:28:32 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dancol.org; s=x; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=oiW2EQxSI2EgV2ASqc3o1OiirpPLME0YA8/tuTpqX4w=; b=O1i30b+4VlQORLfnODYdQzpe8U1MseJ6C5EqKqXDVTWWqfTokCNCPSOMk+qnzUJxKCaAfagXbHq6EUbzIDm0z3D4R5jFV2QsCNdp7UEKj5K+iSJfO6Z+F2GcPEXqqhESmNJTDi+1INnHM+3VpFXCqNwEM5UzgzQPK5uyrbMMgZEx1wJxkBIv/rrCTqFg6NblrD2T0Kg/EOsDloD0vqZWo+TmilnQwdQYUD+t23nMwm/O1aAL8porzTCzcNh1xw2+IPqTbpSEyCMyfm3W55/VG7TICru7eavfxfpSUi8EcWl/fkxa7TzMcKwAei37pzSY1KQBwFxeflcmUK6/H6STMg==; Original-Received: from [2620:0:1008:100b:bc8e:4940:ab86:ab74] (helo=dancol-glaptop0) by dancol.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cCwJj-0003CW-PR; Fri, 02 Dec 2016 14:28:31 -0800 In-Reply-To: <83a8cem1eq.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 03 Dec 2016 00:06:21 +0200") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:adf3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:209952 Archived-At: On Sat, Dec 03 2016, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Karl Fogel >> Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2016 14:11:23 -0600 >> >> Following up to what John said, with a perspective that may be useful to Eli: > > Thanks, but it isn't useful. Why? because, like John, you don't think > that my opinion about the preferred solution to getting rid of unexec > is right. > > What would be useful is a perspective from someone who understands the > issues and agrees with me about the preferred solution. Because only > such a person can see the dilemma through my eyes, and only that > person can find the right words. We've all been contributing to Emacs for many years. I think we have a pretty good grasp of the issues and potential problems. I understand that you think there's an existential risk that goes into this change, but I think you're mistaken, and a lot of other people agree. We all have access to the same information; it's unlikely (but not impossible) that you're the only one who can see certain potential problems. Please give this change the benefit of the doubt. Even if your worst-case scenario comes to pass, the worst outcome outcome will just be more fiddly maintenance. I think the pdumper code is pretty clean; I'm open to suggestions for making it moreso. The code doesn't depend on arcane details of underlying operating systems --- it depends only on details of Emacs itself. We don't need ELF experts. If there's no one left who can understand pdumper, there's no one left who can understand the GC either. In that scenario, we're already in Mad Max territory anyway. You won't have to touch this code.