From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "John S. Yates, Jr." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: File menu changes (suggestions) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 07:18:15 -0400 Message-ID: References: <17lib155doplm3ia2aerfis81rr33mei63@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1119526748 14734 80.91.229.2 (23 Jun 2005 11:39:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:39:08 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 23 13:39:00 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DlQ2U-0005mT-PE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:38:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DlQ9J-0000bV-5Q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 07:45:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DlQ02-0005xC-Ri for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 07:36:03 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DlQ01-0005wN-Ku for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 07:36:02 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DlPze-0005Tk-3U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 07:35:39 -0400 Original-Received: from [204.127.202.59] (helo=sccrmhc14.comcast.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DlPhi-0000XQ-1b; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 07:17:06 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.yates-sheets.org ([24.218.47.3]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <20050623111342014007n5jee>; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:13:42 +0000 Original-Received: from 10.1.1.4 ([10.1.1.4]) by mail.yates-sheets.org (WinRoute Pro 4.2.5) with SMTP; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 07:19:00 -0400 Original-Received: from dadold.yates-sheets.org ([10.1.1.12]) by [10.1.1.4] with SMTP (SpamPal v1.57) sender ; 23 Jun 2005 07:19:00 -0400 Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org, miles@gnu.org In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652 X-SpamPal: PASS WLIST EMAIL X-Wlist-Pattern: john@yates-sheets.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:39356 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:39356 On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:31:01 +0900, you wrote: >Yeah I kind of assumed that. My question was more as to how you know >what "they" want/like[*]. It seems reasonably clear that the >different models will lead to some confusion when switching between >them, but is there really evidence of some inherent preference? > >It seems to me that both models are convenient/comforting in some >situations and annoying/restrictive in others. I can see that my original point really did not come through. Let me try again... I think that we are doing a poor job of seducing CUA-reared would-be users into Emacs-hood by grafting-on a CUA-like menu facade when the very first menu likely to be invoked exposes our neophytes to a false similarity. Rather than argue about which common CUA name most closely matches some Emacs function that we feel we need to expose, a way to truly proper matches would be to think about how we might modify Emacs -- which we boast to ourselves is so infinitely malleable -- so that it might present truly CUA-like behavior. If one accepts this premise then some amount of reflecting on where presently insurmountable mismatches exist and what extensions might allow Emacs to overcome those mismatches is in order. Hence my original -- though admittedly flawed -- proposal. /john