From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "T.V Raman" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2020 09:22:52 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87y2lkb6kb.fsf@gmail.com> <9A4FA038-CCFD-45DF-8B57-E348AFF951D9@gmail.com> <87sgbsb0eb.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb18030 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14745"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: TEC , Gregory Heytings , Yuan Fu , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 09 18:31:16 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kG308-0003kT-GY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 18:31:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60900 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kG307-0007Ty-Ht for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 12:31:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57094) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kG2s6-0002sx-IS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 12:22:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pf1-x433.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::433]:43228) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kG2s4-0007ah-K1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 12:22:58 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pf1-x433.google.com with SMTP id f18so2587289pfa.10 for ; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 09:22:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=BsNEvWicFw379EFP7M4iFI1IjQNkKgn9N7MilhvMlYo=; b=OlcRsSm4+z7EHL1GF3MtwkJFmxp3dp31kx03mPGzLj4KWWEadqXY42o7ZJIElFu0IY IvCM+lL6iXh0wZ2yGGaAbIuoCMRXWBPmH3lJN7ZOKyveo6xSmNINcGxu7zqPyYDa1TRc r5JSN2dPwwK+x/ygXyBxhQv2LfuzAMQ6S+rhgkpqAEcVmabrMF2AZctCKw4VB+dAVnJc kMuTcOZzCDAFKXo0waPyI9LvffavE7lL7SSUlSv7FNlcAt/k52UfFD/cqQiWXhJKr+At u8+YFf4jypir+Cfmv1MO5hWYMgPUY+2z91bupS5tNliR7gCAIw4/sZaWPii4dev0vnxg +LtQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=BsNEvWicFw379EFP7M4iFI1IjQNkKgn9N7MilhvMlYo=; b=ND6Ri9jQyhVkEnYCONPvOVY60F4hf/98Yvl3PquChVrtptKDzU5Z/DB5bbGa/MsPJB x8rtl8wlaSopEGLYuJBPil+Yn+KrhH+1OJAyyxUWtw4seRXwbUemnND9GE2YTBR3RfWK rWMDHYii6/vdVlphUYMC1z9kpI+loguUZ24NK1J98cGxN2/0dib9jZn8Apzlw7JgYDhs oaVcCuHSJivL3OqG3A3mmwPjAg+Yi7ExBCWepFLdGDenzEQ6049OiHzhlYTPc9W1xIDC VPEobFlNxoowCQUVvCVDd/p8Zpf5mk+0BSGSPAopOP0MlazD4A20DXtCKMmGEyFuNWkb UM0A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533107025UI1zAS5CYpueNFoS9M0prmJvHrQChArFIgkDPCLHBfV CE0EFjqP3ux+7ZXdeIgivqmAjQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzKSTSPyONm7xke4ATM8YTNRDyMOqEP+WxZx+bfSEqmLzrEkIykPIRtIneRxMd/jnsLDdv+8A== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:b185:: with SMTP id s5mr1534496plr.132.1599668574582; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 09:22:54 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from raman-glaptop.localdomain (c-24-4-174-65.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [24.4.174.65]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d8sm2566893pgt.19.2020.09.09.09.22.53 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 09 Sep 2020 09:22:53 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by raman-glaptop.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 13930) id 847B8C21A2A; Wed, 9 Sep 2020 09:22:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Wed, 09 Sep 2020 12:05:54 -0400") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::433; envelope-from=raman@google.com; helo=mail-pf1-x433.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -175 X-Spam_score: -17.6 X-Spam_bar: ----------------- X-Spam_report: (-17.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:254903 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: and with taller screens, may be old typewriter motivated displays with column numbers running along the top:-)> Thanks, TEC, I found it quite usef= ul. Further comments and questions below. > >> * Org-mode, my ramp into Emacs pt.1 - vanilla >> - I'd heard about Org-mode as a thing markdown + execution >> - Maybe this could be better than Jupyter? >> - However... I didn't like Spacemacs >> - Removed Spacemacs >> - Typed 'emacs' into a terminal > > So far so good. > >> - Oh, this looks old. > > Fair enough. I don't think we (Emacs community) are in a position to > make it look "modern" and sexy. I know I'm not because my notion of > "modern and sexy" is quite outmoded ;-) > > But "looks old" is usually not a deal breaker, just a negative > first impression. > >> - Successfully opened a file >> + Where are the line numbers? > > Interesting. It would never occur to me to expect line numbers in > a text editor. When and why did line numbers become fashionable? > [ My guess is something like "ever since shortscreens became the only > option, creating a void in the horizontal space that needed > filling" ;-) ] > > I don't oppose enabling line numbers by default, but I do find line > numbers to be an awful waste of valuable screen real estate. > >> + Why aren't I given much information on the file > > Could you be more specific in terms of the particular information that > you felt Emacs failed to give (and maybe how you expected it to be given)? > >> + Where's the completion, the linting, etc. > > Do I understand you right that you expected company+eglot+flymake to be > enabled (and configured) by default? > > I personally find this to be the most glaring concrete problem in > Emacs nowadays. > >> - Tried to execute a command interactively (forget which command) >> + Typed M-x >> + Wait, this is just a text box >> + I don't know commands off by heart! >> + I want to be able to type key terms and see options! > > How much of this would be satisfied by icomplete-mode together with the > `substring` completion-style (which would be a smaller change to > the UI than something like helm-M-x or counsel-M-x). > >> - Having an initialisation=816=A58 file, well commented such that *witho= ut knowing >> anything about Emacs* I could have Emacs be set up such that I could >> actually try it with familiar tasks and not be underwhelmed, or have >> to deal with sudden troubleshooting > > Maybe we could have a "default init file" (consisting of nothing but > commented out code snippets, accompanied by actual comments explaining > them)? > >> =816=A58The important bit about this file is that it let me declare wh= ich >> bundles of functionality I want easily, and without having to parse >> much unfamiliar lisp (both Spacemacs and Vanilla fail in this regard, >> but in different ways). > > Hmm... a "default init file" would still use "unfamiliar Lisp", I'm afrai= d. > >> - Having good 'discoverability enhancements' used by default >> - counsel for M-x > > IIUC this is similar to enabling icomplete-vertical and > icomplete-show-matches-on-no-input, and maybe using a regexp > completion style? > >> - Used Discord for it's community, a recent chat-app which I recognised >> (I'm still warming up to mailing lists). > > Definitely a non-starter since it's proprietary. > There are obviously acceptable alternatives. > > I think an important aspect is to find a communication medium that can > be used from Emacs. IRC and Email do satisfy this criteria. > Whenever I have to write text outside Emacs I feel hampered. > > > Stefan > > --=20 =817=A94 Id: kg:/m/0285kf1 =950=DC8