From: "T.V Raman" <raman@google.com>
To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob@tcd.ie>
Cc: "Stefan Monnier" <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>,
"Clément Pit-Claudel" <cpitclaudel@gmail.com>,
emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Macros considered harmful
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2022 09:54:55 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <p91sfl41m00.fsf@google.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87fsh4ikl3.fsf@tcd.ie> (Basil L. Contovounesios's message of "Tue, 06 Sep 2022 18:33:28 +0300")
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"Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob@tcd.ie> writes:
Note that all this gets significantly more complex in the world of
native-comp as long as the .eln files are generated from the .el, rather
than the .elc files.
> Stefan Monnier [2022-09-06 00:44 -0400] wrote:
>
>> Cl¨¦ment Pit-Claudel [2022-09-05 19:53:26] wrote:
>>> On 8/20/22 07:14, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>>> FWIW, I think specifying the highlighting rules with something akin to:
>>>> (defvar <foo> '<rules>)
>>>> is a mistake. It should go through some kind of macro, such as (maybe):
>>>> (defvar <foo> (tree-sitter-rules <rules>))
>>>> which can thus do any preprocessing we may want, such as pre-compiling
>>>> queries. It also helps evolve the syntax since we can more easily warn
>>>> about obsolete uses, etc...
>>>> I've had a "rewrite font-lock.el so the rules go through a macro" in my
>>>> todo list for ages.
>>>
>>> We do things this way in Flycheck, but we've been bitten a few times by the
>>> way this pattern interacts with `with-eval-after-load`, so I would be
>>> careful about adopting this pattern in tree-sitter (unless we expect it to
>>> be preloaded).
>>
>> Very good point. It would introduce a strong compile-time dependency on
>> the tree-sitter package, which could be a serious annoyance for random
>> `foo-mode` packages which want to keep working in the absence of
>> tree-sitter.
>>
>> Hmm...
>>
>> [ I guess we'd have to make that macro lightweight and independent from
>> tree-sitter itself and put it into a separate package distributed via
>> GNU ELPA, so packages can feel free to depend on it.
>> Hmm... Another problem. ]
>>
>>> In fact, I think your suggestion back then was to *not* use a macro?
>>
>> Indeed,
>>
>> [ Lua eshews macros altogether for those kinds of reasons, AFAIU. ]
>>
>> Admittedly, another way around these kinds of problems is to teach the
>> compiler how to deal with an unknown macro. I.e. something like
>> (declare-macro my-foo ...) so that if the compiler see (my-foo ...) but
>> `my-foo` can't be macroexpanded (because the macro is not yet defined),
>> it doesn't incorrectly compile it into a function call, but instead
>> residualizes it into something like a call to `eval`. Making it
>> interact correctly with lexical scoping could be tricky (I guess the
>> simplest solution would be to residualize the whole toplevel expression
>> in which the macro call was found).
>
> Another downside of macros not directly addressed by this approach is
> that packages using them may have the outrageous desire to both support
> older Emacsen and build cleanly, at the same time! Recall, for example,
> this unresolved shortdoc thread:
> https://lists.gnu.org/r/emacs-devel/2021-09/msg01719.html
>
> I suppose in the general case this can be alleviated only through
> 'compat'-like ELPA dependencies (or by expecting each package to write
> its own compatibility shims, of course).
--
Thanks,
--Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
7©4 Id: kg:/m/0285kf1 0Ü8
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-09-06 16:54 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 19+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2022-08-15 12:32 Tree-sitter integration on feature/tree-sitter (severe performance issues together with linum-mode) Jostein Kjønigsen
2022-08-15 12:50 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-08-15 13:53 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-18 7:50 ` Yuan Fu
2022-08-18 9:44 ` Yuan Fu
2022-08-19 6:01 ` Jostein Kjønigsen
2022-08-19 21:58 ` Yuan Fu
2022-08-20 14:14 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-23 1:53 ` Fu Yuan
2022-08-23 14:30 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-24 1:18 ` John Yates
2022-09-06 2:53 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2022-09-06 4:44 ` Macros considered harmful (was: Tree-sitter integration on feature/tree-sitter (severe performance issues together with linum-mode)) Stefan Monnier
2022-09-06 15:33 ` Macros considered harmful Basil L. Contovounesios
2022-09-06 16:01 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-03 18:27 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2022-09-06 16:13 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-09-06 16:54 ` T.V Raman [this message]
2022-09-07 0:41 ` Tree-sitter integration on feature/tree-sitter (severe performance issues together with linum-mode) Yuan Fu
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