From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "T.V Raman" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Opening Up More Keymaps Re: Standardizing more key bindings? Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 14:37:14 -0700 Message-ID: References: <24436.53239.437810.270641@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> <24436.58187.698211.262192@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb18030 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="17508"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Gregory Heytings , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 30 23:38:18 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kNjnl-0004Sd-RL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 23:38:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33774 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNjnk-0008P7-U7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 17:38:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48158) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNjmq-0007xd-JG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 17:37:20 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pj1-x102e.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::102e]:51131) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNjmo-00046e-Td for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 17:37:20 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pj1-x102e.google.com with SMTP id p21so311977pju.0 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 14:37:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=2yBMjrwVGl7wnV2eHwMnraKlIVZcsGlsEQqY2vvUo/Q=; b=cfJGFI+vPuBNtW24pay6K65EvRwCYgT28b0OF+lvrpoY5fnb5tF5v/r41FlCvQ133o rtmWlEiFHyh+iHoz8Zd80o69L0dN/jNoIT4d0SoJYsAOit2rdrdMrkfIl3VYMxpr+AHm P+oKQjS5irjMQDuv2uIDb9QQ7TO87f6vpDFdc9ktb3TXAWd1cjUTKXPSBMPSoPmjBXMV I4n6vVNIKG0/s1TSYaORvOMWbeEOlwdY6k/iCABKW9fq4x65bLthc1RJxkDd2LWNetFv DKF2taYuQ/UJpsf0ggTmXAq8uuFI1YCHYmMO6khhvkRASIz+NquyDdqvE2PzmYmIA0RY S7zw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=2yBMjrwVGl7wnV2eHwMnraKlIVZcsGlsEQqY2vvUo/Q=; b=NP81JhTMncsq3l/Tkvx6mSeKhsLtLZCSJ+/Dc1HS60f2gTR6zChg91wOUu04vaTXTD lCTf1O14hcpgJ5QRcKs/oP7Vjxa70Uz9COdr66eJ6R9CJPpSaJUhLe68gUdFqOMJ2XOX /l/6Q703mqeExxLhfsHLMR57PdXnVPZxnb4FscJdkFGYYETOKfxhoo/wOGUpli1EoUMN zm77i9uq2JU0XRmd5En4bsJJgqGkkzqT3ewdughd+GFZpf7c8B57XLCAUVfgiF46R4Aj yzz9lBuWUW+yrdX7YVd6qlszgeR2zZD+7Vqt1OtP7Eh9Of6cHoA8truQVGXOqlHd7ZQr yRow== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530Pl5lOs9iTdWtQ/AdsfLI6dToy7okP0oW6QzLGxui4bDzbPTHr XagxUYnwBYnGqm4v5x2zRUwsI8KVY/Xdo03h X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxL1VGEhEfVPt+BCecptnkzPpUeH/aSAYSvXjbLaZBcOBSn/OSooR2H5EN09gXFg2ME+9HEdg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:67cb:: with SMTP id g11mr4258954pjm.56.1601501836868; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 14:37:16 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from raman-glaptop.localdomain (c-24-4-174-65.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [24.4.174.65]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l188sm3767728pfl.200.2020.09.30.14.37.15 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 30 Sep 2020 14:37:15 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by raman-glaptop.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 13930) id DD8A8C20A9B; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 14:37:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Wed, 30 Sep 2020 17:19:17 -0400") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::102e; envelope-from=raman@google.com; helo=mail-pj1-x102e.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -180 X-Spam_score: -18.1 X-Spam_bar: ------------------ X-Spam_report: (-18.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.499, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256808 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: Splitting the discussion into "free up C-z" and "what shall we use it for if available" is a good recipe in general to avoid deadlock. In general I step back to saying emacs needs more keys --- 20 years ago when I mostly never used a laptop as often, I even considered getting a foot-pedal. >>>> that's an interesting perspective. Am surprized that you feel tty use= rs >>>> would find C-z z significantly harder than just C-z as the key to >>>> suspend Emacs. >>> I assume tty users have "C-z to suspend" hardwired in their fingers and >>> would be quite surprised if any application decides to use another bind= ing >>> for it. >> That's correct, except if that application uses C-z C-z to >> suspend. Repeating a key until it produces the expected effect is also >> something tty users are used to do. For example repeating C-c until the >> program aborts. > > Very good point, there are cases where `C-z` needs to be repeated > (e.g. to suspend editing a commit message in "Zile launched by Git" ;-) > > I usually consider those as bugs, but it does make `C-z C-z` into > a viable option. Obviously, not a good option if you want to bind `C-z` > to `undo` but viable if you want to use `C-z` for a new keymap ;-) > > > Stefan > > --=20 Thanks, --Raman =817=A94 Id: kg:/m/0285kf1 =950=DC8