From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: raman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Casting as wide a net as possible Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 08:21:53 -0800 Message-ID: References: <866101faeo.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1450110136 2848 80.91.229.3 (14 Dec 2015 16:22:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 16:22:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Adrian.B.Robert@gmail.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 14 17:22:09 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1a8Vsz-0005df-8j for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 14 Dec 2015 17:22:05 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60773 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a8Vsy-0002hk-Gz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 14 Dec 2015 11:22:04 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39792) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a8Vsu-0002hZ-CK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Dec 2015 11:22:01 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a8Vsq-000155-Av for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Dec 2015 11:22:00 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pf0-x234.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c00::234]:33680) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a8Vsq-00014r-2I for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Dec 2015 11:21:56 -0500 Original-Received: by pfnn128 with SMTP id n128so107770694pfn.0 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2015 08:21:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=JUYxBpIVZL6aO+NSSXdxAvH30zJfeRzXqeErpKAOSq4=; b=SG1ClqekuapdoYBZPBoJ+nqvSRY251pynE7YHidVyo63qtrdXkt6EGvzp9DQR1hYHV prf9Cr4bMru0DIlOrj9FABOpM0hUVVZ/1QTUhdVsZO41ScxHkrRPMKC0SmYybyF5BT0N 9Bz1WP9kDNNYJytWxt9ed+q2uwNP5Jg5zK8D3PL9pR5B8IlLK2Yg6HOUdBGY3WDVrp/g k0/USwjsMA54XqSCPI+ADPW76Ic+yVgbYvLRysbS7FdEDyk4f0Ru7PBrMu2px7/RE2dT LWMYDbViABvd6GApfl1UT3W+0qTivh2hKfi711xmcs4nfnhVj2deDWxLiC9SVN6eCUA/ Q1VA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=JUYxBpIVZL6aO+NSSXdxAvH30zJfeRzXqeErpKAOSq4=; b=LQxWh+FM3RHHJtFKl3EIkwCwVo90OwsR7CGjJZeTOHgylfwRIA+C2QoBewNb4ztkcS Z2alah3JuvexG7dbQ8DCLckqSww4dBZ3bqezTOJs5MdeI6f2K5Gi1SZjUXtKp0VbOuNO f2tDfsg5vIaKy+WqX6oVeJ/QxaNcNqT7DmMJltwU741ztJefnRQ/ccxYf/t33SHeJD0U RE2Gl0LAdzQv+eouM3T36AzLzCvlciEEyMZ/TiVlMyyQvgYhfOKEsb302ZZq9eD0aUve jsMUFI/lQMqVtMJo1EefMTCfomwOFpNYik6QICUX3E2p7Te5hGPmQ0nLFK/5ScnkQQcC 2bCg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlb6irxz3u6w3iGtk5z44L/8w9y4hW1ig0LL40KmCLk4/Kz9d27sN+4ZWFwjfG6FuXtTKLn2KZVmBtssC88JQ4QxCF6tA== X-Received: by 10.98.89.28 with SMTP id n28mr37316682pfb.32.1450110114852; Mon, 14 Dec 2015 08:21:54 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from raman-glaptop2 (c-73-170-121-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [73.170.121.60]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c79sm43449475pfj.71.2015.12.14.08.21.53 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 14 Dec 2015 08:21:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <866101faeo.fsf@gmail.com> (Adrian B. Robert's message of "Mon, 14 Dec 2015 15:05:19 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c00::234 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:196245 Archived-At: Adrian.B.Robert@gmail.com writes: And a couple more: 1. All content is structure aware --- so the same set of navigation / cut/copy commands work across a wide variety of content. Lacking this, other environments force users to select based on what they see on the screen with a mouse -- and though that might give instant gratification, it breaks down when the unit of information you want doesn't fit on the screen. 2. That all content is in a single consistent environment makes sharing content across various purposes easy -- write some code, copy a piece that is causing problems into a chat/mail buffer, get a response -- easily paste it back (except when some WebApp at the other end ruins it with non-breaking invisible spaces -- but I digress). > >>>>>>> Drew Adams writes: >> >>> My only point is that Lisp features really do make Emacs what it is. To >>> point out what Emacs is necessarily means pointing out some of those >>> features (IMO). >> >> I agree. The things that make Emacs great: >> >> 1. Highly consistent syntax. >> 2. Self-documenting. >> 3. Integrated debugger. >> 4. Ability to re-evaluate functions in a running environment. >> (i.e., everything that made Lisp Machines great) >> 5. Natural syntax for scoping resources (`with-temp-buffer ...') >> 6. Large and well documented API >> 7. Stable and mature concepts evolved over decades >> 8. Huge, HUGE community of cargo-cultable examples, for those just learning > > These are all good, but, aside from #2 and #3, relatively deep and > sophisticated. The simpler aspects that keep driving me back to use Emacs > even as good IDEs and other tools proliferate, and the reasons I encourage > others to try it: > > 1. Do things that often *can't be done* in other editors: > - *everything* from the keyboard > - fast, low-overhead keyboard navigation (faster than any IDE) > - split windows for multiple spots in file or multiple files > - clean, complete l10n handling > - regex search/replace > - keyboard macros > > 2. Do things *more easily* than other editors > - discovery: M-x command completion and shortcut hinting (part > of self-documenting, means can learn to use keyboard easily) > - swiss-army knife: learn once, edit many types of content > (rather than dealing with a new tool for every job) > - works same on any desktop box > - works same on remote *nix machines as in a local desktop > (rather than suffering with vi etc.) > - emacsclient (big when working with command-line shells in a > desktop environment) > > 3. Better *customization* than other editors > - menu options plus straightforward simple customization > - full programmability for complex cases > - *easily* migrate customization from environment to environment > > > Overall, due to excellent design philosophy and a highly extensible > foundation, Emacs delivers an unparalleled environment for focusing on what > you want to do, rather than spending time fiddling and fighting with your > tools. > > --