Request for partecipating in the project

Request for partecipating in the project

[Sam Qasbah]

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Hello.
I asked to host the "Emacs Manual in ePub Format" project on Savannah (
https://savannah.nongnu.org/task/?15492). I had a discussion with Ineiev,
who thinks this project should be part of Emacs (
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/savannah-register-public/2019-12/msg00036.html).
So I ask to participate in the "Emacs" project as compiler of the manual in
ePub2 format. The ebook format allows you to consult the manual with a
smartphone, tablet or epub-reader. It is not a simple conversion from texi
to epub, but a craft work of organizing and adapting the files, rewriting
the formatting and adding a cover with a "fascinating" flavor. For me,
participating in the "Emacs" project would be an opportunity to improve my
computer skills and to exchange experiences with top-level programmers. I
can also convert the "elisp ref" to ePub

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RE: Request for partecipating in the project

[arthur miller]

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Skickat från min Samsung Galaxy-smartphone.


> The ebook format allows you to consult the > manual with a smartphone, tablet or epub-> > reader.

Both my smartphone and my tablet read Emacs manual perfectly fine in html format in browser, and I am sure if I wanted to read manuals in pdf format they would work perfectly fine too. What does epub brings that html or pdf does not? Personally I don't even like pdf.

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Re: Request for partecipating in the project

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2019-12-22, at 22:38, arthur miller <arthur.miller@live.com> wrote:

> Skickat från min Samsung Galaxy-smartphone.
>
>
>> The ebook format allows you to consult the > manual with a smartphone, tablet or epub-> > reader.
>
> Both my smartphone and my tablet read Emacs manual perfectly fine in html format in browser, and I am sure if I wanted to read manuals in pdf format they would work perfectly fine too. What does epub brings that html or pdf does not? Personally I don't even like pdf.

AFAIK, ebook readers can render HTML, but work much better with
dediacted formats.

FWIW, I converted the Emacs manuals to an ebook-reader-friendly format
many years ago, and automatic conversion resulted in a very poor
experience.  If someone volunteers to do a better job than Calibri, I'm
all for it!!!

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

RE: Request for partecipating in the project

[arthur miller]

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> AFAIK, ebook readers can render HTML, but > work much better with
> dediacted formats.

You mean some special hardware, or you mean ordinary ebook apps?

On my tablet I just open online manual in Firefox. There is also manual in pdf format, can't device render pdfs?



Skickat från min Samsung Galaxy-smartphone.


-------- Originalmeddelande --------
Från: Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl>
Datum: 2019-12-22 23:00 (GMT+01:00)
Till: arthur miller <arthur.miller@live.com>
Kopia: Sam Qasbah <samqasbah@gmail.com>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Ämne: Re: Request for partecipating in the project


On 2019-12-22, at 22:38, arthur miller <arthur.miller@live.com> wrote:

> Skickat från min Samsung Galaxy-smartphone.
>
>
>> The ebook format allows you to consult the > manual with a smartphone, tablet or epub-> > reader.
>
> Both my smartphone and my tablet read Emacs manual perfectly fine in html format in browser, and I am sure if I wanted to read manuals in pdf format they would work perfectly fine too. What does epub brings that html or pdf does not? Personally I don't even like pdf.

AFAIK, ebook readers can render HTML, but work much better with
dediacted formats.

FWIW, I converted the Emacs manuals to an ebook-reader-friendly format
many years ago, and automatic conversion resulted in a very poor
experience.  If someone volunteers to do a better job than Calibri, I'm
all for it!!!

Best,

--
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

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Re: Request for partecipating in the project

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2019-12-22, at 23:32, arthur miller <arthur.miller@live.com> wrote:

>> AFAIK, ebook readers can render HTML, but > work much better with
>> dediacted formats.
>
> You mean some special hardware, or you mean ordinary ebook apps?

Hardware.

> On my tablet I just open online manual in Firefox. There is also manual in pdf format, can't device render pdfs?

It can, but the UX is terrible.

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: Request for partecipating in the project

[Tim Cross]

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There is no single ebook-friendly format. Different ebook readers are
better/worse with different formats (mobi, epub, etc). Therefore, we
probably need to be a little more explicit when talking about ebook
formats.

One of the advantages of some ebook formats, such as epub, is that they can
be more accessible for the blind and vision impaired than PDF or even HTML.
There are at least two packages I'm aware of which will allow epub
formatted books to also be read directly in Emacs.

My experience with Calibre is that the quality of the output you get
depends on both the quality of input (e.g. poorly structured or poorly
tagged PDFs will result in poor conversion) and on the settings of Calibre
itself (of which there is quite a lot). I'm not sure how well Emacs
documentation will convert. My experience with PDFs generated from Latex is
not good as Latex is very weak with respect to accessibility and generating
modern tagged PDF documents.

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 at 09:01, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:

>
> On 2019-12-22, at 22:38, arthur miller <arthur.miller@live.com> wrote:
>
> > Skickat från min Samsung Galaxy-smartphone.
> >
> >
> >> The ebook format allows you to consult the > manual with a smartphone,
> tablet or epub-> > reader.
> >
> > Both my smartphone and my tablet read Emacs manual perfectly fine in
> html format in browser, and I am sure if I wanted to read manuals in pdf
> format they would work perfectly fine too. What does epub brings that html
> or pdf does not? Personally I don't even like pdf.
>
> AFAIK, ebook readers can render HTML, but work much better with
> dediacted formats.
>
> FWIW, I converted the Emacs manuals to an ebook-reader-friendly format
> many years ago, and automatic conversion resulted in a very poor
> experience.  If someone volunteers to do a better job than Calibri, I'm
> all for it!!!
>
> Best,
>
> --
> Marcin Borkowski
> http://mbork.pl
>
>

-- 
regards,

Tim

--
Tim Cross

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RE: Request for partecipating in the project

[arthur miller]

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Isn't epub developed to be electroncal version of printed books, so that electronicall books can keep same logical layout (chapters, paragraphs, pages, etc) as their physical counterparts? Probably not a deal breaker, but software documentation maybe is not really suitable for that kind of publishing.

I think Emacs help is great, but I really miss great overview over the API as found for example in javadoc.

When it comes to accessibility I am not sure if epub offers you that much more of accessibility options then you get from in html, but I might be wrong. Anyway there is a good guide on making information accessible to visually impaired people:

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.sabeusa.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/A-Guide-to-Making-Documents-Accessible-to-People-Who-are-Blind-or-Visually-Impaired.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjS-9e-0MrmAhWHlYsKHcJ9BZ0QFjACegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw3P809blo61Vmg1IzcMSZ6M

Just as a note.

Skickat från min Samsung Galaxy-smartphone.



-------- Originalmeddelande --------
Från: Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com>
Datum: 2019-12-23 01:04 (GMT+01:00)
Till: Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl>
Kopia: arthur miller <arthur.miller@live.com>, Sam Qasbah <samqasbah@gmail.com>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Ämne: Re: Request for partecipating in the project

There is no single ebook-friendly format. Different ebook readers are better/worse with different formats (mobi, epub, etc). Therefore, we probably need to be a little more explicit when talking about ebook formats.

One of the advantages of some ebook formats, such as epub, is that they can be more accessible for the blind and vision impaired than PDF or even HTML. There are at least two packages I'm aware of which will allow epub formatted books to also be read directly in Emacs.

My experience with Calibre is that the quality of the output you get depends on both the quality of input (e.g. poorly structured or poorly tagged PDFs will result in poor conversion) and on the settings of Calibre itself (of which there is quite a lot). I'm not sure how well Emacs documentation will convert. My experience with PDFs generated from Latex is not good as Latex is very weak with respect to accessibility and generating modern tagged PDF documents.

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 at 09:01, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl<mailto:mbork@mbork.pl>> wrote:

On 2019-12-22, at 22:38, arthur miller <arthur.miller@live.com<mailto:arthur.miller@live.com>> wrote:

> Skickat från min Samsung Galaxy-smartphone.
>
>
>> The ebook format allows you to consult the > manual with a smartphone, tablet or epub-> > reader.
>
> Both my smartphone and my tablet read Emacs manual perfectly fine in html format in browser, and I am sure if I wanted to read manuals in pdf format they would work perfectly fine too. What does epub brings that html or pdf does not? Personally I don't even like pdf.

AFAIK, ebook readers can render HTML, but work much better with
dediacted formats.

FWIW, I converted the Emacs manuals to an ebook-reader-friendly format
many years ago, and automatic conversion resulted in a very poor
experience.  If someone volunteers to do a better job than Calibri, I'm
all for it!!!

Best,

--
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl



--
regards,

Tim

--
Tim Cross


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Re: Request for partecipating in the project

[T.V Raman]

Texinfo generated info is a good exemplar from an
accessibility-to-the-blind perspective, 
-- 

Re: Request for partecipating in the project

[Mario Lang]

Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:

> One of the advantages of some ebook formats, such as epub, is that they can
> be more accessible for the blind and vision impaired than PDF or even HTML.

Please name an example where epub clearly is bettern then HTML.
I (a blind user) have never seen one until now.

-- 
CYa,
  ⡍⠁⠗⠊⠕

Re: Request for partecipating in the project

[Tim Cross]

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epub is an HTML based format. Essentially it is an archive file of HTML and
metadata. So the issue isn't so much whether it is better than HTML but
more about some of the tools available.  Most ebook reader applications are
designed to optimize reading of books - they usually make moving
back/forward in 'pages' easier, have consistent access to table of
contents, allow easy setting of font types, sizes and color etc. For
example, I find epub works far better with VoiceOver (the text-to-speech
application in macOS, ipdaOS and IOS) on macOS, ipadOS and IOS than does
either Safari (for HTML) or PDF (with any of the available PDF viewers like
Preview or Adobe etc) for reading books. Likewise, the Kindle app on macOS,
ipadOS or IOS works really well with voiceOver. The web based Kindle app is
not accessible at all.

As Raman points out, texinfo under Emacs and .info files are very
accessible thanks to packages like his Emacspeak or others like
speechd.el.  However, other formats generated from Texinfo sources are less
so. For PDF the issue is that TeX/Latex PDF generation tools are very poor
at creating accessible PDF documents (this has been acknowledge within the
TeX/Latex community and there has been some work to improve the situation,
but the changes required are non-trivial and progress is slow).
It has been some time since I looked at HTML documents generated from
texinfo, but when I last checked, the accessibility was not great
(accessibility to documents is not a binary proposition - some documents
are sort of accessible, but lack appropriate tags/labels to make navigation
of the documents 'make sense', so you might be able to get parts of the
document read out, but being able to effectively navigate the document and
find what you want is difficult or the data is presented 'out of sequence'
compared to how a sighted person would see it).

For me, the advantage of having Emacs documentation in one of these other
ebook formats is that it could make it possible to access this
documentation outside of Emacs. I find this quite useful. For example, when
working on a project, I might open reference books on my ipad or iphone
while working in Emacs on macOS or GNU Linux. I find it is sometimes more
convenient to check things on the ipad rather than switching buffers/frames
under Emacs.  I can also use apps that will read epub (or other formats)
continuously, which is handy when doing boring tasks like hanging out the
washing -  Today, I was listening to 'Elements of Clojure' while hanging
out the washing.

the point of my earlier post was that the generation of documents in other
formats, like an ebook, from texinfo sources is unlikely to be that
accessible without a fair bit of effort. I have had good success with
Calibre for other document types, but it did take a fair bit of tweaking
and experimentation. Having the Emacs documentation in ebook formats would
likely be useful to many people, but getting a decent conversion may be
challenging and getting an accessible version even more so.  I do think it
is important to be able to generate the output from existing texinfo files
i.e. don't want to have 2 versions of the documents as we will never keep
them 'in sync'.

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 at 17:34, Mario Lang <mlang@blind.guru> wrote:

> Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > One of the advantages of some ebook formats, such as epub, is that they
> can
> > be more accessible for the blind and vision impaired than PDF or even
> HTML.
>
> Please name an example where epub clearly is bettern then HTML.
> I (a blind user) have never seen one until now.
>
> --
> CYa,
>   ⡍⠁⠗⠊⠕
>


-- 
regards,

Tim

--
Tim Cross

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RE: Request for partecipating in the project

[arthur miller]

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.


> epub is an HTML based format. Essentially it is an archive file of HTML and metadata.

XML, not html.

> So the issue isn't so much whether it is
> better than HTML but more about some of
> the tools available.

Might be that there are better applications for voice reading then Emacs, albeit I think that your target group is already reading Emacs manual in Emacspeak. I think I will try to set  up Emacspeak for myself, have not done it yet.

Anyway, I hinted that epub might not be THE best format for a reference like API docs. I don't think that structure of chapters and especially pages are very good structure for electronic documents, especially not for API docs or references. Do you miss "page structure" on Wikipedia?

Emacs self documentation is good and being able to lookup stuff directly from within your Emacs is priceless, but sometimes I miss an easy overview of the api, for example when I can't remember name of a function or similar.

By the way, what kind of hardware does not have a web browser nowadays? Is not like online Emacs manual is full of javascript and other stuff on the edge of the web technology.

Skickat från min Samsung Galaxy-smartphone





On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 at 17:34, Mario Lang <mlang@blind.guru> wrote:
Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com<mailto:theophilusx@gmail.com>> writes:

> One of the advantages of some ebook formats, such as epub, is that they can
> be more accessible for the blind and vision impaired than PDF or even HTML.

Please name an example where epub clearly is bettern then HTML.
I (a blind user) have never seen one until now.

--
CYa,
  ⡍⠁⠗⠊⠕


--
regards,

Tim

--
Tim Cross


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Re: Request for partecipating in the project

[Tim Cross]

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On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 at 03:04, arthur miller <arthur.miller@live.com> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> .
>
>
> > epub is an HTML based format. Essentially it is an archive file of HTML
> and metadata.
>
> XML, not html.
>

I don't think so. Here is the listing from an epub on my system. the actual
content is HTML, some of the metadata is XML.

M Filemode      Length  Date         Time      File
> - ----------  --------  -----------  --------
>  ---------------------------------------
>   -rw-r--r--        20   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  mimetype
>
  -rw-r--r--       240   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  META-INF/container.xml
  -rw-r--r--     31079   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/ch10.html
  -rw-r--r--     14395   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/ch08.html
  -rw-r--r--    148408   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20
 OEBPS/UbuntuMono-BoldItalic.otf
  -rw-r--r--     15006   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/ch02.html
  -rw-r--r--     11985   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/ch06.html
  -rw-r--r--     11514   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/content.opf
  -rw-r--r--       335   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/cover.html
  -rw-r--r--     27481   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/ch13.html
  -rw-r--r--     13107   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/ch09.html
  -rw-r--r--    337564   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/DejaVuSerif.otf
  -rw-r--r--    140008   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/UbuntuMono-Regular.otf
  -rw-r--r--     15112   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/ch04.html
  -rw-r--r--       326   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/toc01.html
  -rw-r--r--     16138   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/ch03.html
  -rw-r--r--     55286   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/ch11.html
  -rw-r--r--     12299   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/ch07.html
  -rw-r--r--       635   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/titlepage01.html
  -rw-r--r--     14044   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/epub.css
  -rw-r--r--      4750   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/preface01.html
  -rw-r--r--     52228   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/ch12.html
  -rw-r--r--    148888   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/UbuntuMono-Italic.otf
  -rw-r--r--     10861   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/ch05.html
  -rw-r--r--     12277   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/ch01.html
  -rw-r--r--     27907   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/toc.ncx
  -rw-r--r--    137220   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/UbuntuMono-Bold.otf
  -rw-r--r--      5754   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/preface02.html
  -rw-r--r--      1929   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/copyright-page01.html
  -rw-r--r--    614488   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/DejaVuSans-Bold.otf
  -rw-r--r--      4427   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20
 OEBPS/assets/custom-controls.png
  -rw-r--r--     13377   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/full-navbar.png
  -rw-r--r--     11254   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/menu-custom.png
  -rw-r--r--      4560   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/level-right.png
  -rw-r--r--     14023   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/postcode.png
  -rw-r--r--      3781   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20
 OEBPS/assets/rubik-breadcrumb.png
  -rw-r--r--     26588   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20
 OEBPS/assets/navbar-custom.png
  -rw-r--r--     68868   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20
 OEBPS/assets/red-background.png
  -rw-r--r--      4200   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20
 OEBPS/assets/rubik-pagination.png
  -rw-r--r--      3016   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20
 OEBPS/assets/custom-button-outlined.png
  -rw-r--r--     13266   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/files.png
  -rw-r--r--     51085   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/table-custom.png
  -rw-r--r--      4820   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/edit-title.png
  -rw-r--r--     16096   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/email.png
  -rw-r--r--      6458   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/pagination.png
  -rw-r--r--     68957   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/new-customer.png
  -rw-r--r--      3834   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/cover.png
  -rw-r--r--    476350   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20
 OEBPS/assets/BEP_Bulma_final.jpg
  -rw-r--r--      4462   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20
 OEBPS/assets/navbar-brand-icon.png
  -rw-r--r--      2682   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20
 OEBPS/assets/dropdown-link.png
  -rw-r--r--      2885   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/title-custom.png
  -rw-r--r--      3786   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/custom-file.png
  -rw-r--r--     16748   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20
 OEBPS/assets/navbar-brand-before.png
  -rw-r--r--     40263   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/nav.png
  -rw-r--r--      3045   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/title.png
  -rw-r--r--     18188   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/popular-book.png
  -rw-r--r--     44985   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/initial.png
  -rw-r--r--      9215   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20
 OEBPS/assets/component-menu.png
  -rw-r--r--      5195   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/address.png
  -rw-r--r--      7516   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/heading.png
  -rw-r--r--     28678   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/metrics.png
  -rw-r--r--     13416   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20
 OEBPS/assets/dropdown-content.png
  -rw-r--r--     27274   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/item.png
  -rw-r--r--     11989   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20
 OEBPS/assets/dropdown-desktop.png
  -rw-r--r--      1431   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/rubik-button.png
  -rw-r--r--      5385   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/buttons.png
  -rw-r--r--      1138   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/button.png
  -rw-r--r--     10981   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20
 OEBPS/assets/dropdown-hover.png
  -rw-r--r--     32090   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20
 OEBPS/assets/loyal-customers.png
  -rw-r--r--      2155   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20
 OEBPS/assets/component-select.png
  -rw-r--r--      3544   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20
 OEBPS/assets/custom-select.png
  -rw-r--r--   1578947   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/collections.png
  -rw-r--r--      4727   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20
 OEBPS/assets/customers-pagination.png
  -rw-r--r--     13429   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/media-before.png
  -rw-r--r--     13249   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20
 OEBPS/assets/orders-header.png
  -rw-r--r--      5393   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/price.png
  -rw-r--r--      7041   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/level-left.png
  -rw-r--r--      1326   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/checkbox.png
  -rw-r--r--     11060   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/logo.png
  -rw-r--r--      8426   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20
 OEBPS/assets/content-header.png
  -rw-r--r--     22665   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/table.png
  -rw-r--r--    100708   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/edit-full.png
  -rw-r--r--     45410   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/edit-cover.png
  -rw-r--r--     16657   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/latest-order.png
  -rw-r--r--    163013   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20  OEBPS/assets/grid.png
  -rw-r--r--     16303   5-Feb-2018  23:13:20
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>
> > So the issue isn't so much whether it is
> > better than HTML but more about some of
> > the tools available.
>
> Might be that there are better applications for voice reading then Emacs,
> albeit I think that your target group is already reading Emacs manual in
> Emacspeak. I think I will try to set  up Emacspeak for myself, have not
> done it yet.
>

but there is no emacs on some platforms, so you cannot access it there.
Emacs and emacspeak are great, but I cannot run them on my pone or tablet
(and have speech support) (well to be accurate, there are things you can
do, but they are complex and error prone and have ppor performance).



> Anyway, I hinted that epub might not be THE best format for a reference
> like API docs. I don't think that structure of chapters and especially
> pages are very good structure for electronic documents, especially not for
> API docs or references. Do you miss "page structure" on Wikipedia?
>

I have used epub and mobi based reference books and they are fine provided
they are formatted correctly and have the appropriate index. There is
nothing about either epub or mobi which would make them any less
appropriate than any other format such as html or pdf. Howe easily texinfo
can be translated into any of these formats in an acceptable manner is
another question. It isn't that it cannot be done, it is a question about
whether the existing translaters can handle it appropriately.

>
> Emacs self documentation is good and being able to lookup stuff directly
> from within your Emacs is priceless, but sometimes I miss an easy overview
> of the api, for example when I can't remember name of a function or
> similar.
>
>
sounds like your talking about the ELISP Reference Manual (as opposed to
the Emac Manual).

By the way, what kind of hardware does not have a web browser nowadays? Is
> not like online Emacs manual is full of javascript and other stuff on the
> edge of the web technology.
>
>
Pretty much everything has a web browser, but it isn't necessary the best
interface for some things. I find reading books with a good epub browser is
much better than reading a PDF or HTML version in a web browser. More
importantly, the user experience is better.


> --
regards,

Tim

--
Tim Cross

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 14425 bytes --]

Re: Request for partecipating in the project

[T.V Raman]

The epub spec specifies xhtml though epub in the wild could be anything,
including badly formed html 
-- 

Re: Request for partecipating in the project

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

It seems to me that if we want to convert Texinfo-format text into
ePub format, that ought to be part of the Texinfo package.
It can generate various formats already.  And we have many manuals
that are written in Texinfo format -- a new output format should
work for all of those manuals, and other people's manuals.

Would you be interested in working on this under the rubric of
Texinfo?

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)