From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "T.V Raman" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On the adoption of transient.el Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2021 14:08:44 -0700 Message-ID: References: <877di4on3d.fsf@posteo.net> <87im1oy6mw.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb18030 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7400"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Emacs developers , Gabriel , Philip Kaludercic , Yuri Khan To: Rudolf =?euc-jis-2004?Q?Adamkovi=AA=CC?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 01 23:09:38 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mAIiI-0001ln-4g for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2021 23:09:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53728 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mAIiG-0003t0-U3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2021 17:09:36 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44970) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mAIhY-0003Dc-DT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2021 17:08:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pj1-x102c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::102c]:36463) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mAIhV-0007rl-S1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2021 17:08:52 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pj1-x102c.google.com with SMTP id ds11-20020a17090b08cbb0290172f971883bso28660783pjb.1 for ; Sun, 01 Aug 2021 14:08:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=coKmtEEFVJWsg+VyKI56e5nbKaUg4CRZDlLMC3zY70s=; b=m69Jd2NRu3uvqiaZ6hjm0nV9xhtMK0qZm2+embbnJkwZ5QHAFixzVTGIXneQJhmNxa gr5NVPf01CsiC3KPyuflZEhtS8F7vFLTCKjx4wIDwBHcODzHCSjxbZy3ksb5BgZGCOaA bR86uDMw/El6HnEXgQQmxhUH8XacKMwYcA3ZUE+4pXfSBPClOee9AFEJiQL0hStQB+TS 0EqPI4xYfjgtHFd5ZggJEwW5d9VQY+fL8OgEs0zFYE1spCUVO6rXsGuWfVWVvMuq83fI 65AaTyOtRLXhwfXRTqSd1rtuJ8YBWrYmpMOljeEsa3uHgCAZz0DsPp2p/jnkXuuzdUK6 iKFg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=coKmtEEFVJWsg+VyKI56e5nbKaUg4CRZDlLMC3zY70s=; b=pVgyFjKenyTSmhbYfroyo6kUiF91hKfO0eLKn8iKype8TPtdsYDVei05JyDtkJI/zY 44QuOriIjJh1vU6mCmXzLG4SrM3IbxLWnPWL+fVPm9g58SpSmMGH0eR2h/dtdh1jNlcW i8wGfA2vKKya8qytX8neWO1++0qOoq8dauMrvxPeym7QHJYtqISErUKI2N7OF8Lee6r1 mNjL1KRhOfjbOoDJHJ1NljniMY1cD2b+YBkU1IPZyXmeGhudncpJVBGtSLo7IDINk2oD 12bqAdf2KCyUhF6QceeRZgKTApfLtBRWSp4ArADA1AARGZOzWKF8oRpfq1cj4Bfh7pkJ 2qOQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532K3MVky++erq4nt8CkbIFZ/Ltk9xDcwaaG/kQkkuveDzI9yl57 lyk6TDRUsKGAMy9vaYQd7WyTIQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwGkruAjF//IJ7kyELRqRHhx4c/v24sprhxQAD7KLBhKyMJ92VozeY8r2GPgdWcZAxdkE7Okg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:b783:b029:12c:a6a3:21e with SMTP id e3-20020a170902b783b029012ca6a3021emr5814826pls.72.1627852126778; Sun, 01 Aug 2021 14:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from raman-glaptop (c-24-4-174-65.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [24.4.174.65]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b17sm4539764pgl.61.2021.08.01.14.08.45 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 01 Aug 2021 14:08:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: ("Rudolf =?euc-jis-2004?Q?Adamkovi?= =?euc-jis-2004?Q?=AA=CC=22's?= message of "Sun, 01 Aug 2021 22:19:34 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::102c; envelope-from=raman@google.com; helo=mail-pj1-x102c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -175 X-Spam_score: -17.6 X-Spam_bar: ----------------- X-Spam_report: (-17.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:271924 Archived-At: Rudolf Adamkovi=810=8D0 writes: I think some of this stems from the fact that transient displays the choices in a window that is actually not the "current window/buffer" in the common Emacs sense --- it does take some getting used to --- at least in the beginning. I've gotten used to it over time, but only after writing some of my own Emacspeak wrappers --- on the positive side, the transient author has been very helpful in that process. So on the plus-side, magit/transient does go somewhat outside the "vanilla emacs box", but it's also a good opportunity to experiment with new/newer interaction paradigms. I dont think this will cause Emacs to go the Apple/Microsoft way since as a community, Emacs will never lock itself down to one single frozen way of doing UI. (Or at least I hope so):-) > Philip Kaludercic writes: > >> On the other hand something has always felt off about transient, in >> the sense that it is breaking some expected behaviour or couldn't >> pin-point yet, but just unconsciously stumble over.=20 > > This is exactly how I feel about the "modern" interfaces in Emacs. I > reported a bug in Embark recently, and because I could not select and > copy the text, I ended up re-typing the text that was right in front > of me in Emacs. Say what? For me, Emacs is a program where I expect to > never waste time re-typing anything. Magit has a similar feel to it, > and I can never be sure if the program will allow me to select text in > the diverse parts of its user interface. In my opinion, such > uncertainty is bad for power users. I would expect this from Apple or > Microsoft software, because their latest =A1=B0UX designers=A1=B1 surely = know > better than anyone, but in Emacs? > > R+ --=20 Thanks, --Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research) =817=A94 Id: kg:/m/0285kf1 =950=DC8