From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "T.V Raman" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changing line widths in the Emacs source code Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 19:28:04 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87tuw1x016.fsf@gnus.org> <20200913142210.GA4285@ACM> <87d02pmsi7.fsf@t510.orion.oneofus.la> <87o8m9sadk.fsf@gkayaalp.com> <87k0wxjl6j.fsf@telefonica.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb18030 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11252"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3scar?= Fuentes , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 14 04:28:42 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kHeET-0002mz-85 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 04:28:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49504 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHeES-00035h-B2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 22:28:40 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34750) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHeDy-0002fD-6u for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 22:28:10 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pj1-x1035.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::1035]:38468) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHeDw-0002tM-Ia for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 22:28:09 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pj1-x1035.google.com with SMTP id u3so4550416pjr.3 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 19:28:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=JU1aCzdZeTqjax13IOfYs4cMexmtBYy9RycVMHw3z30=; b=QWq0c8jw9yrO+AeCZg+EN5/21FIeedbI4IJR03znjpbcsX9M9g6Of49zkxp84vscWW IsaS0mZHqYRRSZZhB+o69bfRShPec/uVxOVP4ImwdZJiukkLb3Gvlo+Z3ki5j6BqDBWs uwo1pfx5wwgIjYFg1yloEZTXFaWh9FFFbJCL7NyXf6CQLSYmiUaJfkXSKCg5ermIvsGW bwDWYqG777Ani04MXUCp6vPXGwW0qzHD1X6/2+diYBNYW6SIv+lBNkiNmDDjHrwliwLW 7EX8+ophXchlxXcgc22T5itkZEw4u4mKM4rUy2pUTgqwh4iUnem1rkcpa7UpkZq4gCDm Up6w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=JU1aCzdZeTqjax13IOfYs4cMexmtBYy9RycVMHw3z30=; b=bnrnRTXB2jivdhBEQldRtbE0+jQIF4fcxXYUgOlSNSXTmTMG+nDOxHNP+gHn6F8x0r GLlbLAGk5RZIxTq+MFIVAy4Ji/fwMQXKejte0zrcoNcH4gB4vQpCegZwptX1VbC76znG 0T9gyzvzbVmf7G0h5siIyPUFPpFeXXd0exzr5YHNKB04UpXKSdymghjWTt+ph9U3RzyL mCWcTuuo6fTbWuNkhawz8ep4ycDLzW59L1r83aW8ga6GXzD1+XmAARHmb5BYdc15kd88 5NPr4HImcqckrVuSMtH0VI4nXOMfOfO+/9w6cdQEobM3y62pkRYZstvHL+u2mVuD2fqi RfBw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533GmKfev1U1asE5boLXbUYLfe9VOzJHfNj+Yp7VPDDdPRcN6gdE PtMp8f0ONpkO+tGmOnwgM4TsKTtHQjbWzRzu X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz/WPgM3KGQH5Cj8xd0bEdK8xPh8Skyt6sj5hdM8neuSaxoE5dLkF/qxNu5c9QJyQjW2HGJaQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:e795:: with SMTP id iz21mr11783867pjb.8.1600050486350; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 19:28:06 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from raman-glaptop.localdomain (c-24-4-174-65.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [24.4.174.65]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j24sm7343928pjy.35.2020.09.13.19.28.05 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 13 Sep 2020 19:28:05 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by raman-glaptop.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 13930) id 35DB4C217CB; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 19:28:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sun, 13 Sep 2020 22:23:32 -0400") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1035; envelope-from=raman@google.com; helo=mail-pj1-x1035.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -175 X-Spam_score: -17.6 X-Spam_bar: ----------------- X-Spam_report: (-17.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255594 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: This could also be language specific. Languages like Java and perhaps also C++ end up with unduely long identifiers when you have a complex package/module system in use --- that then makes 80 columns hard. Emacs C codebase doesn't suffer this, though elisp does to an extent given that identifier names can get long if one isn't careful to choose a succint package prefix in lieu of a namespace=20 >> Keeping track of indentation level adds to cognitive load, so we can't >> dismiss leading unused columns as irrelevant. > > I don't think we was saying they're irrelevant. But just that the 55-60 > "optimum" has to do with the difficulty for your visual system to jump > from the end of one line to the beginning of the next and that it was in > a context of "plain text", so it doesn't necessarily carry over to code > because of the indentation. > > The indentation could both help (in the sense that a text indented by 40 > columns should be able to use a fill-column of about 95-100 and result > in an "optimal" legibility) and hinder (in the sense that it might be > harder for the visual system to find the beginning of the line when > every line starts at a different indentation level, tho I don't know if > that's the case, nor even if it has been studied). > > In any case, my experience is that regardless of issues of legibility it > is usually easy to make code fit within 80 columns so I don't see > a strong reason to increase that number (given that such an increase > would likely result in a decrease of visual code density, i.e. less > efficient use of screen real estate, and may encourage nesting code more > deeply which would be detrimental to the readability of the code). > > I don't think there's anything magical about 80, but experience just > seems to show that it works well. > > > Stefan > > --=20 =817=A94 Id: kg:/m/0285kf1 =950=DC8