From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?iso-8859-2?B?QWRhbSBXb7Nr?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why Emacs should have a good web-browser Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 21:26:02 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87ocrjl2r6.fsf@gmail.com> <87zlb2bwyj.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87bpnefl73.fsf@gmail.com> <1248196427.7551.38.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1248204415 6776 80.91.229.12 (21 Jul 2009 19:26:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 19:26:55 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Thomas Lord , ferkiwi+a@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Paul R , Miles Bader To: "Lennart Borgman" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 21 21:26:47 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MTKz8-0004fi-69 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 21:26:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49508 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MTKz7-0001uk-E2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:26:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MTKyl-0001ql-N4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:26:23 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MTKyh-0001qI-6X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:26:23 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=48223 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MTKyg-0001qF-WD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:26:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mx20.gnu.org ([199.232.41.8]:39416) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MTKyf-0007pY-7t; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:26:17 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-bw0-f219.google.com ([209.85.218.219]) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MTKye-0005S9-Cz; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:26:16 -0400 Original-Received: by bwz19 with SMTP id 19so3487160bwz.42 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 12:26:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:content-type:to:cc:subject :references:date:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:from :message-id:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=jF1lXAtf+/zhhL6urhZgMTQH7mOVbMOCOJcucTBh3aQ=; b=gmTQzbp5m/y4nT3SEnUwJQ7QXfCZ2jsYYfWJVC5EIMiYRzivlzovs8VZzsvTGCl+Jj I3vwHWcUyI7xfYIagh9CyY0rkQhUPo44hEr8QzKNq9QFCK2bLmg5AO0EAglVOLibwavP JLPh+NxyVnJ7ecHonjWn5sEhrIwYUJg1VnmDg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=content-type:to:cc:subject:references:date:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:from:message-id:in-reply-to:user-agent; b=o/7ZXXosnXYqCOKiQaqhtqgJND4pfaYA+QKoSlRJ6KmCOQ3UEF3BvaC8sSyM1x2Nes mlR0HDzT5zAHIHjXfZQp4aeoOme9hYHFNLT1m8ruRRMq8ki6v1qTCDqoZd/dZZkirR6g d4S70qgWcdug4KhFyfHcyKG6Xf42dgGs1oa7I= Original-Received: by 10.103.182.3 with SMTP id j3mr636mup.116.1248204373923; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 12:26:13 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from inferno.interq.pl (nat-4.interq.pl [83.2.136.4]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id s10sm30045248mue.8.2009.07.21.12.26.12 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 21 Jul 2009 12:26:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/10.00 (Win32) X-Detected-Operating-System: by mx20.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:112946 Archived-At: Dnia 21-07-2009 o 21:01:21 Lennart Borgman napisał(a): > On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 8:21 PM, Adam Wołk wrote: > >> Benefits of helping out with this project: >> * Conkeror can be fully controlled from withing emacs using mozrepl > > Please explain in what way it is better to use Conkeror than Firefox for > this. If You refer to mozrepl and scripting only. Then I would assume that concepts taken from Emacs and implemented in conkeror will make it a more natural platform to extend for current Emacs users. Unfortunately this is a wild guess on my part as I really haven't tried to code for either platform (conkeror and Firefox). Some other things that came to my mind: Conkeror has implemented massive amounts of functionality in ways that Emacs users expect. For example I quickly checked the following set of common tasks with basic text edition: * C-n, C-p, C-f, C-b, M-f, M-b, C-t, M-t, C-a, C-e, C-v, M-v * C-s, C-r * C-w,M-w,C-y,C-k * Marks and regions are used for operations (C-SPACE, C-x C-x) All of them work as expected. This makes it easier and more natural to tab between both applications (Emacs and conkeror). The interface is styled after Emacs and is designed to be fully keyboard driven. The browser works with 'buffers' while firefox still defaults to tabs. It's actively developed and mostly by people who already are Emacs users. Do to the nature of the project it should be easier to have specific features accepted in the upstream then with Firefox. Consider sending a patch for Firefox to improve Emacs compatibility - I don't think it would concern most developers. Of course this could be done as an extensions to Firefox. In fact conkeror started that way and they decided to go all the way down. I believe that having a good default and supported browser that integrates well with Emacs would be great.