New bug tracker server

New bug tracker server

[Chong Yidong]

I have set up the new bugtracker at debbugs.gnu.org.  At the moment, it
contains a copy of the emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com bug database extracted
a few minutes ago (including the spam), plus a couple of test messages.

Please test this server out.  If there are no problems over the next day
or so, I will resync to emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com, and we can begin the
process of moving to this server (and cleaning up some of the spam).

Who handled redirecting the Emacs bugs mailing list the last time?  Are
there any pitfalls in the redirection that I should be aware of?

Re: New bug tracker server

[Glenn Morris]

Chong Yidong wrote:

> I have set up the new bugtracker at debbugs.gnu.org.

You rock!

However, I am unable to submit any bugs. Mail sent (from fencepost) to
either submit or quiet @ debbugs.gnu.org just bounces back:

  submit@debbugs.gnu.org
    SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<submit@debbugs.gnu.org>:
    host fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]: 550 Unrouteable address

Re: New bug tracker server

[Chong Yidong]

Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:

> I am unable to submit any bugs. Mail sent (from fencepost) to either
> submit or quiet @ debbugs.gnu.org just bounces back:
>
>   submit@debbugs.gnu.org
>     SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<submit@debbugs.gnu.org>:
>     host fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]: 550 Unrouteable address

Strange, I have not encountered any problems.  I tried again just now,
and managed to submit http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=4898
without any error.

Another submission from my Gmail account worked too.

Re: New bug tracker server

[Glenn Morris]

Chong Yidong wrote:

>>     host fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]: 550 Unrouteable address
>
> Strange, I have not encountered any problems.  I tried again just now,
> and managed to submit http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=4898
> without any error.

I sent a bug from another email address and that worked.

I think the above error message means that my mail reached debbugs,
which then tried to do some kind of verification on fencepost.gnu.org,
and failed. So debbugs.gnu.org must have some stricter checking turned
on than eg, the emacs mailing lists, or the old emacsbugs server.
Could this be turned off?

Re: New bug tracker server

[Glenn Morris]

Glenn Morris wrote:

> I think the above error message means that my mail reached debbugs,
> which then tried to do some kind of verification on fencepost.gnu.org,
> and failed.

Actually, it turned out that the issue was on fencepost rather than
debbugs (/etc/exim4/local_domains needed a line "!debbugs.gnu.org"
adding). Thanks to sysadmin@gnu, this is now fixed.

Re: New bug tracker server

[Glenn Morris]

Chong Yidong wrote:

> If there are no problems over the next day or so, I will resync to
> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com, and we can begin the process of moving
> to this server (and cleaning up some of the spam).

More generally, how do you envisage this working from then on?

These questions don't all need answering right away:

Will it be possible for all Emacs developers to get direct access to
the database, eg so that we can share the load of weeding out spam in
future?

How should we go about editing the web-pages so that they make more
sense for Emacs (bug#750)? Ideally, it would work in a similar way to
the existing Emacs web-pages stored in the repository on Savannah.

Any ideas about moderating the input (bug#3140)?

How about changing the debbugs program itself (eg bug#3060)? Do you
think this is doable and/or wise?

I think there is a problem with the mail-news gateway that needs
addressing somehow (bug#936).

Re: New bug tracker server

[Chong Yidong]

Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:

> Will it be possible for all Emacs developers to get direct access to
> the database, eg so that we can share the load of weeding out spam in
> future?

Yes, once we are up and running, I would like to give direct access to
any Emacs developer who is a frequent, reliable contributor and
interested in helping to weed out the spam.

> How should we go about editing the web-pages so that they make more
> sense for Emacs (bug#750)? Ideally, it would work in a similar way to
> the existing Emacs web-pages stored in the repository on Savannah.

This just involves editing the web-page directly.  We have root access
on debbugs.gnu.org.

> Any ideas about moderating the input (bug#3140)?

I am curious about this, myself.  I am not 100% clear about how the mail
redirection works, so hopefully one of the hackers who helped set it up
can chime in.

> How about changing the debbugs program itself (eg bug#3060)? Do you
> think this is doable and/or wise?
>
> I think there is a problem with the mail-news gateway that needs
> addressing somehow (bug#936).

No idea.

Re: New bug tracker server

[Jan D.]

While we are wishing for things...
Is it possible to get a better search? I.e. be able to search in the 
body of submitted bugs.

Also, a button to go to the advanced search page at once would be nice.
That is the page you come to if you for example type

   Find bugs by (x) package ...
   What to search for: kaka

and then press Find (i.e. a failed search).

I haven't found a direct URL to that page.

	Jan D.

On 2009-11-10 03:22, Glenn Morris wrote:
> Chong Yidong wrote:
>
>> If there are no problems over the next day or so, I will resync to
>> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com, and we can begin the process of moving
>> to this server (and cleaning up some of the spam).
>
> More generally, how do you envisage this working from then on?
>
> These questions don't all need answering right away:
>
> Will it be possible for all Emacs developers to get direct access to
> the database, eg so that we can share the load of weeding out spam in
> future?
>
> How should we go about editing the web-pages so that they make more
> sense for Emacs (bug#750)? Ideally, it would work in a similar way to
> the existing Emacs web-pages stored in the repository on Savannah.
>
> Any ideas about moderating the input (bug#3140)?
>
> How about changing the debbugs program itself (eg bug#3060)? Do you
> think this is doable and/or wise?
>
> I think there is a problem with the mail-news gateway that needs
> addressing somehow (bug#936).
>

Re: New bug tracker server

[Stefan Monnier]

Thank you very much for setting up this debbugs instance.

> How should we go about editing the web-pages so that they make more
> sense for Emacs (bug#750)? Ideally, it would work in a similar way to
> the existing Emacs web-pages stored in the repository on Savannah.

We could arrange to store them under bzr.sv.gnu.org and refresh them
occasionally on debbugs.gnu.org from there.

> How about changing the debbugs program itself (eg bug#3060)? Do you
> think this is doable and/or wise?

Yes, I think it would be good.  There's a lot to improve, but some of
the changes can be easy to do (e.g. patches rejected upstream but
available in debbug's own bug tracker).

We should setup a local branch of debbugs for it, so we can track the
upstream code, of course.

> I think there is a problem with the mail-news gateway that needs
> addressing somehow (bug#936).

Unrelated rant: I've been a fervent usenet user for many years, but
I must say I find it more and more difficut to access usenet: even my
university's CS department (i.e. where I work) doesn't provide usenet
access any more.  I think usenet is sadly dying, replaced by
mailing-lists and crappy web-forums.


        Stefan

bug mail-news gateway [was Re: New bug tracker server]

[Glenn Morris]

Stefan Monnier wrote:

>> I think there is a problem with the mail-news gateway that needs
>> addressing somehow (bug#936).
>
> Unrelated rant: I've been a fervent usenet user for many years, but
> I must say I find it more and more difficut to access usenet: even my
> university's CS department (i.e. where I work) doesn't provide usenet
> access any more.  I think usenet is sadly dying, replaced by
> mailing-lists and crappy web-forums.

Amen.

If no-one can come up with a fix for #936, however, I think it would
be acceptable to make the gateway one-way, mail->news only. I don't
think people need to be able to report bugs via usenet. For those who
want to do so, gmane exists.

This problem continues to happen, resulting in information loss.
For example today:

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2009-11/msg00578.html

was sent via the bug newsgroup. It appeared on the bug mailing list,
but not in the tracker:

http://emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=4883


It seems worth thinking about this while the issue of how to get mail
into the tracker is on the table.

Re: New bug tracker server

[Andrey Paramonov]

Hello!

http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=359 fails for me with the following
error message:

An error occurred. Error was: Bad bug log for bug 359. Unable to read records:
bad line 'From ottomaddox@fastmail.fm Wed Jun 4 07:07:34 2008' in state
incoming-recv at /usr/share/perl5/Debbugs/Log.pm line 256,  line 137.

Andrey Paramonov

Re: New bug tracker server

[Stefan Monnier]

> Who handled redirecting the Emacs bugs mailing list the last time?

Someone at savannah-hackers, but I can't remember who.  Don?

> Are there any pitfalls in the redirection that I should be aware of?

The redirection is loop-prone, so you have to make sure you only
redirect email which you know for sure hasn't gone through you already.


        Stefan

Re: New bug tracker server

[Glenn Morris]

Stefan Monnier wrote:

>> Who handled redirecting the Emacs bugs mailing list the last time?
>
> Someone at savannah-hackers, but I can't remember who.  Don?

This seems to be the relevant thread:

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/savannah-hackers/2008-03/msg00074.html
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/savannah-hackers/2008-04/msg00034.html

It seems GNU RT#359140 may be the reference ticket.

Re: New bug tracker server

[Daniel Clemente]

El mar, nov 10 2009 a les 02:20, Chong Yidong va escriure:
> I have set up the new bugtracker at debbugs.gnu.org.  At the moment, it

http://debbugs.gnu.org/ seems to be the URL for GNU's generic web tracker.
Could Emacs use a specific URL, like http://debbugs.gnu.org/emacs/ or http://emacs.debbugs.gnu.org/

We can suppose that more GNU projects will want to use http://debbugs.gnu.org/ 

Re: New bug tracker server

[Chong Yidong]

The bug tracker server is currently not working.  The debbugs scripts
were crashing, apparently because we weren't allocated enough memory.
I'll email the FSF admins, and let everyone know when it's working
again.

Re: New bug tracker server

[Chong Yidong]

I have finished setting up the new bug tracker, and it's almost ready to
use now.  Everyone who's interested, please give it a try.

The system is set up as follows.

1. All email sent to submit@debbugs.gnu.org, 1234@debbugs.gnu.org, etc.,
   from the external world (i.e., from non-debbugs.gnu.org senders) is
   redirected by the mail server to a private mailing list,
   debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org.

   (When we go live, we'll redirect bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org so that it
   behave exactly like sending to submit@debbugs.gnu.org, just like the
   way it goes to emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com at the moment.)

2. The debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org mailing list is moderated.  Once
   accepted, the mail is sent to the debbugs scripts (this involves a
   hack to debbugs that I can discuss in greater detail if anyone is
   interested).

3. Once the debbugs scripts pick up the moderated email, it's entered
   into the database.

4. The email is forwarded to the bug-gnu-emacs-test@debbugs.gnu.org
   mailing list.  (When we go live, this will be switched to
   bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org.)  This mailing list can be viewed here:

     http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnu-emacs-test

   When we go live, the bug-gnu-emacs list should only accept mails
   originating from debbugs.gnu.org.  External mail goes to
   debbugs.gnu.org, as indicated in step 1.

Re: New bug tracker server

[Karl Fogel]

Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com> writes:
> I have finished setting up the new bug tracker, and it's almost ready to
> use now.  Everyone who's interested, please give it a try.

Thank you!  Will all the existing bugs be migrated?  (I may have missed
an earlier statement about this...)

-Karl

> The system is set up as follows.
>
> 1. All email sent to submit@debbugs.gnu.org, 1234@debbugs.gnu.org, etc.,
>    from the external world (i.e., from non-debbugs.gnu.org senders) is
>    redirected by the mail server to a private mailing list,
>    debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org.
>
>    (When we go live, we'll redirect bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org so that it
>    behave exactly like sending to submit@debbugs.gnu.org, just like the
>    way it goes to emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com at the moment.)
>
> 2. The debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org mailing list is moderated.  Once
>    accepted, the mail is sent to the debbugs scripts (this involves a
>    hack to debbugs that I can discuss in greater detail if anyone is
>    interested).
>
> 3. Once the debbugs scripts pick up the moderated email, it's entered
>    into the database.
>
> 4. The email is forwarded to the bug-gnu-emacs-test@debbugs.gnu.org
>    mailing list.  (When we go live, this will be switched to
>    bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org.)  This mailing list can be viewed here:
>
>      http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnu-emacs-test
>
>    When we go live, the bug-gnu-emacs list should only accept mails
>    originating from debbugs.gnu.org.  External mail goes to
>    debbugs.gnu.org, as indicated in step 1.

Re: New bug tracker server

[Chong Yidong]

Karl Fogel <kfogel@red-bean.com> writes:

> Thank you!  Will all the existing bugs be migrated?  (I may have missed
> an earlier statement about this...)

Yes.  (The database at debbugs.gnu.org already has a copy of the
emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com database).

Re: New bug tracker server

[Xavier Maillard]

   Karl Fogel <kfogel@red-bean.com> writes:

   > Thank you!  Will all the existing bugs be migrated?  (I may have missed
   > an earlier statement about this...)

   Yes.  (The database at debbugs.gnu.org already has a copy of the
   emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com database).

That's great news ! Thank you for your efforts.

	Xavier
-- 
http://www.gnu.org
http://www.april.org
http://www.lolica.org

Re: New bug tracker server

[Stefan Monnier]

When I browse http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/pkgreport.cgi?which=pkg&data=emacs
I notice that all bugs with number smaller than #1570 (or thereabout)
give me errors when I try to view them, e.g.:

trying to access http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=850:

An error occurred. Error was: Bad bug log for bug 850. Unable to read records: bad line 'From tim.vanholder@gmail.com Mon Sep 1 03:15:46 2008' in state incoming-recv at /usr/share/perl5/Debbugs/Log.pm line 256,  line 143. 

Has the format changed over time and the new code has trouble with the
old format?


        Stefan

Re: New bug tracker server

[Chong Yidong]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> When I browse http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/pkgreport.cgi?which=pkg&data=emacs
> I notice that all bugs with number smaller than #1570 (or thereabout)
> give me errors when I try to view them, e.g.:
>
> trying to access http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=850:
>
> An error occurred. Error was: Bad bug log for bug 850. Unable to read
> records: bad line 'From tim.vanholder@gmail.com Mon Sep 1 03:15:46
> 2008' in state incoming-recv at /usr/share/perl5/Debbugs/Log.pm line
> 256, line 143.
>
> Has the format changed over time and the new code has trouble with the
> old format?

That's my suspicion.

It's possible to go back in update the database manually, removing a few
lines per bug entry, to prevent the scripts from barfing; or to change
the scripts to avoid signalling that error.  So this isn't a big
problem.

I'm using the version of debbugs from Don Armstrong's bzr repository,
because older versions of debbugs won't even read the emacsbugs
database.  I'm not sure why the emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com server can
display the old-format bugs, though.

Re: New bug tracker server

[Glenn Morris]

Stefan Monnier wrote:

> trying to access http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=850:
>
> An error occurred. Error was: Bad bug log for bug 850. Unable to read records: bad line 'From tim.vanholder@gmail.com Mon Sep 1 03:15:46 2008' in state incoming-recv at /usr/share/perl5/Debbugs/Log.pm line 256,  line 143. 

I simply commented out the line giving this error (in Log.pm), and it
seems to work fine.

Re: New bug tracker server

[Stefan Monnier]

> 1. All email sent to submit@debbugs.gnu.org, 1234@debbugs.gnu.org, etc.,
>    from the external world (i.e., from non-debbugs.gnu.org senders) is
>    redirected by the mail server to a private mailing list,
>    debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org.

>    (When we go live, we'll redirect bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org so that it
>    behave exactly like sending to submit@debbugs.gnu.org, just like the
>    way it goes to emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com at the moment.)

IIUC the @gnu.org mailing lists use a specially setup moderation system
that weeds out spam for all mailing-lists at once, so it would be good
if the internal mailing-list were one of the @gnu.org ones so as to
benefit from it.
If someone knows more about it (Eli maybe?), please shed some light on this.


        Stefan

Re: New bug tracker server

[Glenn Morris]

Chong Yidong wrote:

> I have finished setting up the new bug tracker, and it's almost ready to
> use now.  Everyone who's interested, please give it a try.

Many thanks for working on this.

Apologies for repeating myself, but as I said off-list the
configuration seems to be a little different from the old server.

Severities "important" and "serious" are not understood at all, eg:

http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=4953

and severity minor shows up as "unknown severity":

http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/pkgreport.cgi?newest=100;package=emacs
  see 4920, 4927

We probably don't need so many severity levels, but they have been
used.

In the individual bug web-pages, eg

http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=4951

"useless messages" seem to be on by default rather than off.


The package "emacs" is not defined, which is probably not important,
but again represents a difference from the old server.

I got a slightly lengthy message in response to a test control message.
The parts about "fixed" and "found" don't make sense to me.

    > reassign 4951 emacs,ns
    Bug #4951 [emacs] test
    Warning: Unknown package 'emacs'
    bug reassigned from package 'emacs' to 'emacs,ns'.
    Warning: Unknown package 'emacs'
    Warning: Unknown package 'ns'
    Bug #4951 [emacs,ns] test
    Warning: Unknown package 'emacs'
    Warning: Unknown package 'ns'
    Ignoring request to alter found versions of bug #4951 to the same values previously set
    Warning: Unknown package 'emacs'
    Warning: Unknown package 'ns'
    Bug #4951 [emacs,ns] test
    Warning: Unknown package 'emacs'
    Warning: Unknown package 'ns'
    Ignoring request to alter fixed versions of bug #4951 to the same values previously set
    Warning: Unknown package 'emacs'
    Warning: Unknown package 'ns'
    > severity 4952 important
    Severity level `important' is not known.
    Recognized are: critical, grave, normal, minor, wishlist.

Re: New bug tracker server

[Chong Yidong]

Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:

> Severities "important" and "serious" are not understood at all, eg:
>
> http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=4953

I think you can customize this in /etc/debbugs/config

I'll take a look later, or you can go ahead and try to change this
yourself.

Re: New bug tracker server

[Glenn Morris]

Chong Yidong wrote:

> I think you can customize this in /etc/debbugs/config
>
> I'll take a look later, or you can go ahead and try to change this
> yourself.

OK, I added those severities (I didn't want to mess with it without
permission) and it seems to have worked.

Re: New bug tracker server

[Glenn Morris]

The cosmetic differences between the web-pages were because it could
not find the bugs.css file. As a kludge I linked /var/www/bugs.css to
/var/www/css/bugs.css.

Re: New bug tracker server

[Glenn Morris]

By the way, is there a backup scheme in place for the bug database on
debbugs.gnu.org? It would be bad to lose it, once it becomes official.

Re: New bug tracker server

[Chong Yidong]

Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:

> By the way, is there a backup scheme in place for the bug database on
> debbugs.gnu.org? It would be bad to lose it, once it becomes official.

We could set up a cron job to rsync out the bug data spool to fencepost.
I haven't looked too carefully at this, but it's probably not difficult
to set up.

Re: New bug tracker server

[Glenn Morris]

Chong Yidong wrote:

>> By the way, is there a backup scheme in place for the bug database on
>> debbugs.gnu.org? It would be bad to lose it, once it becomes official.
>
> We could set up a cron job to rsync out the bug data spool to fencepost.

I implemented something very basic that backs-up to
~rgm/debbugs/backup/ on fencepost every 2 hours. I'll try to improve
it at some point. I'm backing up:

/etc/debbugs /etc/exim4 /etc/apache2 /etc/aliases
/etc/crontab /usr/share/perl5/Debbugs /var/lib/debbugs /var/www

Let me know if I should add anything else.

Re: New bug tracker server

[Glenn Morris]

Chong Yidong wrote:

> I have finished setting up the new bug tracker, and it's almost ready to
> use now.  Everyone who's interested, please give it a try.
>
> The system is set up as follows.

Something is wrong with messages sent to more than one debbugs address
at the same time.

If I try to send a message to 4957@debbugs, it works.
If I try to send a message to control@debbugs, it works.

If I try to do both in one message (cc'ing or bcc'ing control), it
does not have the desired effect. Instead it ends up creating two new
duplicate bug reports. See bugs 4958 through 4965.

Re: New bug tracker server

[Stefan Monnier]

>> I have finished setting up the new bug tracker, and it's almost ready to
>> use now.  Everyone who's interested, please give it a try.
>> 
>> The system is set up as follows.

> Something is wrong with messages sent to more than one debbugs address
> at the same time.

> If I try to send a message to 4957@debbugs, it works.
> If I try to send a message to control@debbugs, it works.

> If I try to do both in one message (cc'ing or bcc'ing control), it
> does not have the desired effect. Instead it ends up creating two new
> duplicate bug reports. See bugs 4958 through 4965.

Indeed, in that case the destination info in the "Received" header is
probably missing.


        Stefan

Re: New bug tracker server

[Chong Yidong]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> writes:

>>> I have finished setting up the new bug tracker, and it's almost ready to
>>> use now.  Everyone who's interested, please give it a try.
>>>
>>> The system is set up as follows.
>
>> Something is wrong with messages sent to more than one debbugs address
>> at the same time.
>
>> If I try to send a message to 4957@debbugs, it works.
>> If I try to send a message to control@debbugs, it works.
>
>> If I try to do both in one message (cc'ing or bcc'ing control), it
>> does not have the desired effect. Instead it ends up creating two new
>> duplicate bug reports. See bugs 4958 through 4965.
>
> Indeed, in that case the destination info in the "Received" header is
> probably missing.

Yeah, that's the problem.  I'm not sure how to solve this.  When you
send to, say, 4957-quiet@debbugs, the mail header looks like this:

  Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
        by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
        (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org>)
        id 1ND2YX-0003mO-6P
        for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:04:13 -0500
  Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10])
        by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
        (envelope-from <rgm@gnu.org>) id 1ND2YW-0003mJ-En
        for 4957-quiet@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:04:12 -0500

Based on the last "for 4957-quiet@debbugs.gnu.org" line, the script
knows that the email was sent to 4957-quiet prior to going to the
moderation list.

When you send to 4957-quiet@debbugs and BCC control@debbugs, the headers
get stripped out:

  Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1ND1u8-0003Wd-24
	for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:22:28 -0500
  Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10])
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
	(envelope-from <rgm@gnu.org>)
	id 1ND1u7-0003WT-AY; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:22:27 -0500
  Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67)
	(envelope-from <rgm@gnu.org>)
	id 1ND1u3-0004qm-49; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:22:23 -0500

I don't know why this happens, but unless someone can think of a fix, it
seems we have to either give up the practice of using BCC to manipulate
bugs, or abandon moderation via mailing list.  Thoughts?

Re: New bug tracker server

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Chong Yidong writes:

 > > Indeed, in that case the destination info in the "Received" header is
 > > probably missing.

 > When you send to 4957-quiet@debbugs and BCC control@debbugs, the headers
 > get stripped out:

 >   Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67)
 > 	(envelope-from <rgm@gnu.org>)
 > 	id 1ND1u3-0004qm-49; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:22:23 -0500

Probably what is happening is that the message is being forwarded from
the fencepost MTA to *both* @debbugs addresses in *one* SMTP
transaction.  Since there's a BCC, you don't want "for <the BCC'd
address>" in the headers that find their way to the other addressees.
Another possibility is that in a multiple addressee transaction, the
MTA doesn't put a list in "for", it ignores it.

Re: New bug tracker server

[Stefan Monnier]

>> Indeed, in that case the destination info in the "Received" header is
>> probably missing.

> Yeah, that's the problem.  I'm not sure how to solve this.  When you

Here's an idea: when we receive email detined to <foo>@debbugs.gnu.org,
before forwarding it to the mailing-list for moderation, we add a header
"X-Debbugs-Envelope-To:" to remember the original destination, so that
when the mailing-list sends it back to us, we know what to do with it
without having to rely on the unreliable Received: info.


        Stefan

Re: New bug tracker server

[Chong Yidong]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> Here's an idea: when we receive email detined to <foo>@debbugs.gnu.org,
> before forwarding it to the mailing-list for moderation, we add a header
> "X-Debbugs-Envelope-To:" to remember the original destination, so that
> when the mailing-list sends it back to us, we know what to do with it
> without having to rely on the unreliable Received: info.

Great idea.  I just implemented it, and it seems to work fine.

Re: New bug tracker server

[Glenn Morris]

Chong Yidong wrote:

> Great idea.  I just implemented it, and it seems to work fine.

Thank you!

Re: New bug tracker server

[Glenn Morris]

Chong Yidong wrote:

> I don't know why this happens, but unless someone can think of a fix, it
> seems we have to either give up the practice of using BCC to manipulate
> bugs, or abandon moderation via mailing list.  Thoughts?

If there is no fix, personally I would much rather give up BCC. It's a
simple restriction, which I think would be easy to remember, and worth
the trade-off.

The only downsides I can see to not using BCC are minor:

i) People may cc the control server on replies by accident. This isn't
a big deal, the control server won't understand what they say and will
just complain.

ii) People may send mail to 1234-done in response to a close notice.
This is only an issue if the bug has since been reopened, since it
will get closed again. This happens very rarely in my experience.

I have never used BCC for a -done address, I often use it for the
control server.


But not using BCC would not of itself solve this problem, since it
currently fails with explicit cc as well, see eg:
http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=4962