Fwd: Hiring a programmer

Fwd: Hiring a programmer

[Vaidheeswaran]

Please advise.  Thanks.

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-01/msg00241.html



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Hiring a programmer
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 13:44:32 -0800
From: Yuri Niyazov <yuri.niyazov@gmail.com>
To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.orgmode

I'd like to hire a programmer to hack on some things in org-mode for
my use. If these improvements are contributed back the main org-mode
repository, would the copyright assignment have to come from me, or
from the programmer?

Re: Fwd: Hiring a programmer

[David Kastrup]

Vaidheeswaran <kjambunathan@gmail.com> writes:

> Please advise.  Thanks.
>
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-01/msg00241.html
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Hiring a programmer
> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 13:44:32 -0800
> From: Yuri Niyazov <yuri.niyazov@gmail.com>
> To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
> Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.orgmode
>
> I'd like to hire a programmer to hack on some things in org-mode for
> my use. If these improvements are contributed back the main org-mode
> repository, would the copyright assignment have to come from me, or
> from the programmer?

It has to come from the person holding the copyright.  Whether that is
"you" or "the programmer" depends on the contract between "you" and "the
programmer".  Without explicit mention in the contract, the programmer
would retain the copyright (and thus be the one assign copyright to the
FSF) but could be non-free to exercise it (unless the contract
explicitly states that you get a non-exclusive usage right).  So it
might _also_ be necessary to secure a copyright _disclaimer_ from you
where you state that you do not assert any rights over the execution of
the author's copyright.

I am not a lawyer: when in doubt, ask the copyright clerk from the FSF.

-- 
David Kastrup

Re: Fwd: Hiring a programmer

[Vaidheeswaran]

On Thursday 15 January 2015 03:36 PM, David Kastrup wrote:

>
>> Please advise.  Thanks.
>>
>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-01/msg00241.html
>>
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Hiring a programmer
>> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 13:44:32 -0800
>> From: Yuri Niyazov<yuri.niyazov@gmail.com>
>> To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org<emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
>> Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.orgmode
>>
>> I'd like to hire a programmer to hack on some things in org-mode for
>> my use. If these improvements are contributed back the main org-mode
>> repository, would the copyright assignment have to come from me, or
>> from the programmer?
>
> It has to come from the person holding the copyright.  Whether that is
> "you" or "the programmer" depends on the contract between "you" and "the
> programmer".  Without explicit mention in the contract, the programmer
> would retain the copyright (and thus be the one assign copyright to the
> FSF) but could be non-free to exercise it (unless the contract
> explicitly states that you get a non-exclusive usage right).  So it
> might _also_ be necessary to secure a copyright _disclaimer_ from you
> where you state that you do not assert any rights over the execution of
> the author's copyright.
>
> I am not a lawyer: when in doubt, ask the copyright clerk from the FSF.

What would be the simplest arrangement that would involve minimal hassle 
for all parties.

Re: Fwd: Hiring a programmer

[Zack Piper]

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 04:00:31PM +0530, Vaidheeswaran wrote:
> On Thursday 15 January 2015 03:36 PM, David Kastrup wrote:
> 
> >
> >>Please advise.  Thanks.
> >>
> >>http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-01/msg00241.html
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>-------- Original Message --------
> >>Subject: Hiring a programmer
> >>Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 13:44:32 -0800
> >>From: Yuri Niyazov<yuri.niyazov@gmail.com>
> >>To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org<emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
> >>Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.orgmode
> >>
> >>I'd like to hire a programmer to hack on some things in org-mode for
> >>my use. If these improvements are contributed back the main org-mode
> >>repository, would the copyright assignment have to come from me, or
> >>from the programmer?
> >
> >It has to come from the person holding the copyright.  Whether that is
> >"you" or "the programmer" depends on the contract between "you" and "the
> >programmer".  Without explicit mention in the contract, the programmer
> >would retain the copyright (and thus be the one assign copyright to the
> >FSF) but could be non-free to exercise it (unless the contract
> >explicitly states that you get a non-exclusive usage right).  So it
> >might _also_ be necessary to secure a copyright _disclaimer_ from you
> >where you state that you do not assert any rights over the execution of
> >the author's copyright.
> >
> >I am not a lawyer: when in doubt, ask the copyright clerk from the FSF.
> 
> What would be the simplest arrangement that would involve minimal hassle for
> all parties.
> 
> 
> 
> 

Probably the programmer keeping their copyright.
-- 
I have nothing fancy or intelligent to put here.

Re: Fwd: Hiring a programmer

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

... and how to deal with the paperwork of assigning to the FSF.

Zack Piper writes:

 > Probably the programmer keeping their copyright.

I think not; that means that the contributor (employer) has to get the
programmer to sign the papers, and probably the contributor has to
sign a disclaimer of interest in the copyright, too.

IMHO (IANAL, David's advice to ask the FSF copyright clerk is best)
the simplest way is a contract which states that upon payment
copyright transfers to the employer.  Then he can assign to the FSF
himself.

One thing to ask the clerk is about the "automatic licenseback"
clause.  In the FSF assignment, AIUI you will get an automatic license
to use your original code any way you like, including in proprietary
products.  If you want to be mathematically fair to the programmer,
you should give a similar license.  *However*, this is in practice
very complicated because the parts of the code that are "original ==
can be disentangled from Emacs" are likely to be small, disconnected,
and hardly useful, let alone profitable in a proprietary product.  The
*simplest* thing to do is ignore the license grant you get from the
FSF and don't mention it to the programmer.