Re: Differences between ibuffer and dired

[joakim@verona.se]

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:

>> > If you really must do this kind of thing, please keep it to 
>> > a minimum.  And please propose and discuss each key change
>> > on its own merits.
>> 
>> Thats why I suggested a separate branch.  All the changes 
>> could then be tried in the branch withouth inconveniencing users.
>
> "That's why"?  Telling people to simply try a new sack of changes is not the
> same as "proposing and discussing each key change".
>
>> I also dont like the argument that a specific keymap should be kept
>> because its been like that forever. I've been using Emacs 
>> since 1988 and I would still much prefer good consistent keymaps to 
>> inconsistent ones.
>
> Read what I said about consistency.  There are degrees and kinds of consistency,
> and no degree or kind is the be-all and end-all.  The devil is in the details.
>
> The argument about the age of Dired is not simply an argument that what is old
> is good and should never be changed.  Read what I wrote, including the part
> about consistency wrt what users are used to and wrt other, non-core, code.
>
> Read the part about "other things being equal".  No one said that any keymap
> "should be kept because it's been like that forever".  You are either not
> reading well or being dishonest in representing what you've read.
>
> _Reasons_ for each binding change, please.  Just why is this or that a good
> change to make?  Pick a key that you think should be changed, and support it
> with an _argument_.
>
> You seem to be only reacting, in knee-jerk fashion.  Did you actually read what
> I wrote?

You seem offended by the way I wrote. Maybe clarifying what I tried to
express will help:

- The trunk will develop exactly like it always did, with healthy discussions
  for each change. 

- There could be a "skin" branch, or "theme", or whatever more
  apropriate name we come up with.

- In the skin branch, there could be a "consistency" skin that
  sacrifices compatibility for consistency. There is also a "emacs" skin
  which is the official skin derived from trunk.

- a "skin" might contain a number of settings, based on customize, such
  as keymaps for different modes, color themes, etc.

- The newly included package system will can be used to distribute
skins. 
  
The technical facilities are mostly already there. 

The "skin" facility will help to make it easier to adapt Emacs to
different hardware. I personaly would like
- a "tablet skin",
- a "chorded keyboard" skin,
- a "midi controler skin",
- a "swedish keyboard skin", etc...

At least I myself would find it very pleasing to come to a new computer,
download the Emacs suitable for that machine, do m-x set-skin jockeskin
RET, and have a number of for me pleasing settings downloaded and put in
place immediately, such as a consitent keymap, ido-mode, white text on
black background, and so on.

There, I think I said it much better this time. Do you agree?

>> > In sum:
>> >
>> > * Treat proposed changes on a case-by-case basis, discussing them.
>> > * Respect Dired.  Respect time.  Respect user numbers.
>> > * Consider consistency wrt its scope.  And remember that it 
>> >   is not the only important quality.
-- 
Joakim Verona