From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: no-spam@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Default Emacs keybindings Date: 03 May 2004 09:25:18 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <20040502211541.GA26227@fencepost> <85y8oa6nwi.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> <87n04paner.fsf@peder.flower> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1083576584 10800 80.91.224.253 (3 May 2004 09:29:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 09:29:44 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Lars Brinkhoff , emacs-devel@gnu.org, "Kim F. Storm" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Mon May 03 11:29:36 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BKZlY-0005wl-00 for ; Mon, 03 May 2004 11:29:36 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BKZlY-0004A4-00 for ; Mon, 03 May 2004 11:29:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BKZiu-0007zd-Uy for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 05:26:52 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1BKZil-0007wR-EH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 05:26:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1BKZiF-0007eR-0i for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 05:26:42 -0400 Original-Received: from [212.88.64.25] (helo=mail-relay.sonofon.dk) by monty-python.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BKZi9-0007ct-D7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 03 May 2004 05:26:05 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 89954 invoked from network); 3 May 2004 09:26:03 -0000 Original-Received: from unknown (HELO kfs-l.imdomain.dk.cua.dk) (213.83.150.2) by 0 with SMTP; 3 May 2004 09:26:03 -0000 Original-To: Jan Nieuwenhuizen In-Reply-To: <87n04paner.fsf@peder.flower> Original-Lines: 50 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3.50 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:22594 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:22594 Jan Nieuwenhuizen writes: > Kim F. Storm writes: > > > Now I understand -- to use the emacs bindings you have to buy a > > special keyboard. How convenient :-| > > This is what I seemed to notice too. I do buy special keyboards, > or else do remapping. Sure. > > > Are you serious ? > > I think we may be getting somewhere here. If the consensus is that > Emacs bindings (which I like, btw) are only convenient with special > keyboards or custom mappings, it might be good to reconsider the > default mapping that is used. It may be helpful (for new users) if > the default mapping that Emacs uses is actually useful with the type > of keyboard that they are most probable to use. Exactly my point. IMO, it is good that some of the developers actually use the same keyboard (good or bad) as most of our users. > > Btw, Kim, (no offence intended), I think it makes a lot of sense for > people like (you and?) me, who use computers a lot, to look around for > and carefully choose a keyboard (and pointing device) that could make > their `work' more easy or relaxed. I find the keyboard one of my most > important tools, that I like to pick carefully. I really liked my old PC keyboard which had the (10) function keys to the left of the keyboard, the control key was in the "caps lock" position, the "alt" key in the "ctrl" key position, and the esc key to the left of the [1] key (IIRC). It took some time to get used to the current PC keyboard layout, but since I use different computers (and keyboards), I think would have a hard time using them if I had to mentally switch keyboard layout (ctrl/alt) depending on which PC I was currently using. Anyway, as long as I can type as fast as my brain can think :-) does it matter which keyboard I use? BTW, I do carry a couple of old 3-button logitech mouse around that I happen to like :-) -- Kim F. Storm http://www.cua.dk