From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Brad Collins Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Info tutorial is out of date Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:23:42 +0700 Message-ID: References: <20060715221432.GA1252@muc.de> <20060716090816.GA1167@muc.de> <20060717094418.GC1234@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1153277144 6048 80.91.229.2 (19 Jul 2006 02:45:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 02:45:44 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 19 04:45:43 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G3247-0006UP-SD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 04:45:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G3247-0005eE-9X for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:45:35 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G31gK-0007g5-7p for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:21:00 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G31gJ-0007fJ-CY for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:20:59 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G31gJ-0007fG-7k for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:20:59 -0400 Original-Received: from [203.130.156.2] (helo=scan.ji-net.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1G31jJ-0000t9-OF for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:24:06 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost.localdomain ([58.147.21.213]) by scan.ji-net.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k6J2Kof2032757 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:20:52 +0700 Original-To: Emacs-devel@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <20060717094418.GC1234@muc.de> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:44:18 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavis-milter (http://www.amavis.org/) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:45:24 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:57306 Archived-At: Alan Mackenzie writes: > Yes, but surely not all. Might it still be that in poorer countries > there are newbies with PCs of insufficient power to support X? These comments are a bit off topic -- but I would like to address the myth that third world countries are full of ancient computers which can only run CLI environments. Having lived for the last 20 years, mostly in the some of the most remote regions of China, Thailand, Laos and Cambodia I can say that if people have computers today, they are at least running Win95 on a Pentium II boxes. Most people are running XP on at least low to mid-range Pentium III's. No one actually pays for software and in most places there is nowhere to buy it even if you wanted to buy legit copies. This makes adoption of gnu/linux a tough sell here because Windows is the same price as gnu/linux. These are places with little or no electricity, no running water, and in many cases no land based telephone lines. If you want Internet access you can go into any medium sized town and find inexpensive Internet cafe's which always seem to be packed with people. There are cell networks everywhere. There are about 100 houses within a 1km radius of my house, and only 2 land lines installed. But I'd estimate that there are at least 200 or more people will cell phones living in this same area. In much of the rural parts of the Far East, I can safely say that the oft repeated myth that people in third-world countries only have access to old technology, ancient hardware and software is just not true. A PC in the third-world needs to operate in places with no air conditioning, ungrounded electrical connections, dust during the dry season, high humidity in the rainy season and are assaulted by vast numbers of crawling and flying insects in all seasons. Computers don't last long in those conditions, so you don't see any old hardware and the only new hardware anyone makes today is designed to run MS products. I think it's safe to say that the vast number of people even in poor countries will learn how to use a mouse before they learn emacs or info. That said -- I learned emacs over a telnet connection, and when I train people to use emacs (most of our inhouse development tools are emacs applications) I encourage them to spend the first month learning emacs by running it -nw in a shell window. It's a bit severe, but it helps force people to learn to use the keyboard and not avoid the learning curve. After a month, most people are comfortable enough with the keyboard that they don't feel the need to use the mouse much when they switch over to x. I also don't like the term shortcut, it carries with it the idea that it is not the recommended way to use the application and has only been tacked on as an afterthought to appease "power users". b/ -- Brad Collins , Bankwao, Thailand