From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: joakim@verona.se Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs learning curve Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 17:49:25 +0200 Message-ID: References: <4C3B6A8A.80105@gmx.de> <87wrt0e81n.fsf@telefonica.net> <62E9699C07054418AB66F9C5FCB54E5C@us.oracle.com> <87sk3oe3la.fsf@telefonica.net> <1154D96E7D2F401D849266F359E44BB9@us.oracle.com> <87ocecdzou.fsf@telefonica.net> <87hbk4i1m4.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87bpacdpwl.fsf@telefonica.net> <878w5fizcb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <4C3C553D.9090203@siege-engine.com> <87vd8jlh4h.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87mxtvl7l6.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279036182 17046 80.91.229.12 (13 Jul 2010 15:49:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 15:49:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 13 17:49:41 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYhjo-00060E-DA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 17:49:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46954 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OYhjn-0004JB-QI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:49:39 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=52749 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OYhjg-0004HE-D0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:49:33 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYhje-0000j6-Rn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:49:32 -0400 Original-Received: from iwfs.imcode.com ([82.115.149.64]:48852 helo=gate.verona.se) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYhjc-0000h2-6V; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:49:28 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost.localdomain (IDENT:1005@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gate.verona.se (8.13.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id o6DFnPRL031752; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 17:49:26 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87mxtvl7l6.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> (David Kastrup's message of "Tue, 13 Jul 2010 17:33:41 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127189 Archived-At: David Kastrup writes: > joakim@verona.se writes: > >> David Kastrup writes: >> >>> "Eric M. Ludlam" writes: >>> >>>> One of the things I was most surprised by was that when CEDET was >>>> integrated into Emacs, only 2 people tried it and reported anything >>>> from this list. I fixed those things too. Now this list is posting >>>> things that effectively pretend CEDET doesn't exist. What's up with >>>> that? >>> >>> For the effects discussed in this thread, it does not exist. It does >>> much less (if at all) to make two existing separate modes more similar >>> than, say, cc-mode does. >>> >>> It may be that this situation will be different in 10 years from now, >>> but I don't see the way to there. Cedet makes it somewhat easier, as >>> far as I can discern, to help a programmer with creating his own >>> completely idiosyncratic mode with complex functionality. >>> >>> It helps to manage complexity for the mode programmer, not unify >>> behavior for the user. >>> >>> If I am wrong, so much the better, but unless everybody else _knows_ I >>> am wrong, the consequences will be about the same. >> >> You are wrong, but you are also right that there seems to be a lack of >> understanding amongst mode coders that cedet not only provides a >> common infrastructure, but also a common user interface for many >> things. I think it would help if cedet was more used within emacs, and >> also if more cedet clients were incorporated in Emacs, such as ECB. > > Well, cedet has no discernible documentation. It has no info file. > semantics has an info file. It talks about bovine and wisent parser > generators. It mentions their source files. They don't exist. Wisent > files presumably have an extension of .wy. The semantics documentation > claims that there is a mode for creating them. Opening a file with .wy > extension puts it in fundamental mode. There are no interactive > commands autoloaded starting with wisent- or bovin that would have > anything to do with writing language support using > Cedet/semantics/whatever. > > If there is any usable infrastructure or documentation for creating a > mode/grammar with the current Emacs distribution, it is rather well > hidden. > > In the current state of Cedet as delivered with Emacs, it is not usable > for creating new parsers for a language of your choice. You can use the > existing parsers, but you'll have a hard time finding out what they do, > and even just what languages are supported. Thanks. Maybe I can help Eric with documentation then. > Completely useless as a tool for a developer interested in developing > support for a language not already supported. I did help write support for a language not already supported, so I find this statement a bit harsh. -- Joakim Verona