From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: James Cloos Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Flipping url-show-status default Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2010 15:21:59 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87fwwpkchk.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87sk0phicy.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87d3rsk5m4.fsf@lifelogs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1286047653 17532 80.91.229.12 (2 Oct 2010 19:27:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 19:27:33 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ted Zlatanov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 02 21:27:30 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P27k1-0005Y1-8r for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2010 21:27:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58889 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1P27k0-0006rG-2C for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2010 15:27:28 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=58785 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1P27jt-0006pZ-KX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2010 15:27:22 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P27jr-0007sL-Si for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2010 15:27:21 -0400 Original-Received: from eagle.jhcloos.com ([207.210.242.212]:60702) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P27jr-0007sG-L9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2010 15:27:19 -0400 Original-Received: by eagle.jhcloos.com (Postfix, from userid 10) id B034040247; Sat, 2 Oct 2010 19:26:54 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jhcloos.com; s=eagle; t=1286047638; bh=A6TTA8OyWzvgkuzMdrdM2zudtzSDk7DtOKDmhq/W6xg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Message-ID: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=UJlsQlNq2UEFPxePx9lEiyKi4A2UqI80d0LiKSFxrdfaYXv8VGY4krObTHVYLUgim qat/ZN7mKWsEzvh7Yt+199Y36RbTWZxjF6KdW1rwxRotdWM6O4IXeNvQALSv9JXnDH 0UCjYW1MW3FBYLpB9u2Gvqjx6MzNFH0EgpCyjcmE= Original-Received: from carbon (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by carbon.jhcloos.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31CF11D5BF8; Sat, 2 Oct 2010 19:21:59 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <87d3rsk5m4.fsf@lifelogs.com> (Ted Zlatanov's message of "Sat, 02 Oct 2010 09:54:11 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABAAAAAQCAYAAAAf8/9hAAAABHNCSVQICAgIfAhkiAAAAI1J REFUOE+lU9ESgCAIg64P1y+ngUdxhl5H8wFbbM0OmUiEhKkCYaZThXCo6KE5sCbA1DDX3genvO4d eBQgEMaM5qy6uWk4SfBYfdu9jvBN9nSVDOKRtwb+I3epboOsOX5pZbJNsBJFvmQQ05YMfieIBnYX FK2N6dOawd97r/e8RjkTLzmMsiVgrAoEugtviCM3v2WzjgAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== Copyright: Copyright 2009 James Cloos OpenPGP: ED7DAEA6; url=http://jhcloos.com/public_key/0xED7DAEA6.asc OpenPGP-Fingerprint: E9E9 F828 61A4 6EA9 0F2B 63E7 997A 9F17 ED7D AEA6 Original-Lines: 43 X-Hashcash: 1:30:101002:tzz@lifelogs.com::tUHQn3tYbb9OwpfH:aRqRi X-Hashcash: 1:30:101002:emacs-devel@gnu.org::sNvbtdyR9xIcxylU:00000000000000000000000000000000000000000LhMQ4 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:131255 Archived-At: >>>>> "TZ" == Ted Zlatanov writes: TZ> If you're loading a large file, yes (in the download manager, not in TZ> the main window). But the vast majority of use cases for HTTP are TZ> tiny files and a progress bar for each one would be pointless. Large is relative. The variances of pipe bandwidth and latency are huge. And most images on the web are larger octet-wise -- often horribly larger -- than they need to be. The practice of optimizing images for the web evaporated when site design moved from coders to graphic artists. Even the all-cell-phone-all-the-time kids don't seem to understand the need to optimize download time. TZ> Google Chrome, for instance, tells you it's loading the page, but TZ> not each element within it. There is no progress bar. Chrome is not friendly. TZ> Mozilla Firefox shows a tiny unobstrusive inaccurate progress bar for TZ> the whole page in the lower left corner. And the biggest change the ff nuts did to Mozilla was to ruin the UI. Some useful improvements occurred in the low level code, but the UI changes were almost all regressive. (The URL bar background colour change for TLS is the only UI progression I can think of.) TZ> My proposal was to show the URL download progress in an unobstrusive TZ> way, not to hide it altogether. I missed that. Appologies. But when one is behind a tiny pipe (a straw, if you will) detailed progress info is imperative. My preference is sequential pipelined downloads, with n/m file count an percentage of current file progress info (%age can be either numeric or graphic). -JimC -- James Cloos OpenPGP: 1024D/ED7DAEA6