From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Menu suggestion Date: 26 Apr 2004 11:56:24 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1082967556 16359 80.91.224.253 (26 Apr 2004 08:19:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:19:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: dak@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 26 10:19:11 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BI1KZ-0000lS-00 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:19:11 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BI1KY-00054Q-00 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:19:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BI19c-0002dO-Ps for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:07:52 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1BI12Y-0000zb-OP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:00:34 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1BI0z2-0007u8-FK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 03:57:28 -0400 Original-Received: from [212.88.64.25] (helo=mail-relay.sonofon.dk) by monty-python.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BI0yn-0007j9-Ah for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 03:56:41 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 1871 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2004 07:56:40 -0000 Original-Received: from unknown (HELO kfs-l.imdomain.dk.cua.dk) (213.83.150.2) by 0 with SMTP; 26 Apr 2004 07:56:40 -0000 Original-To: rms@gnu.org In-Reply-To: Original-Lines: 38 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3.50 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:22159 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:22159 Richard Stallman writes: > I know the keyboard purist elite is very fond of emacs' traditional > bindings, but they do make emacs more difficult to learn than > emacs+CUA. > > Why do you think the traditional Emacs bindings are harder to learn > than these bindings? It is not a question of which bindings are harder to learn -- it's a question of whether it is necessary to learn any bindings at all. When a new user is trying emacs for the first time, I bet that he already knows about scrolling using arrow keys, home/end, pgup/pgdn, and if he is just a little experienced in other applications, there is also a good chance that he already knows about C-c to copy, C-x to cut, C-z to undo and C-v to paste. Since emacs already has the capability to support the bindings that the user already knows, there is really no need to teach (and confuse) a new user an alternative way to move the cursor (which is a fairly large part of the tutorial). So while your point is that to use emacs, the user must be taught a non-standard set of cursor movement bindings, my point is that if we allow a user to build on his current experience gained from other applications, he can more quickly learn to use emacs as a whole. Of course, if he later want to learn how to use emacs more efficiently (and he is a good typist), he can start learning about C-f, C-b, for cursor motion. It is true that changing the translations of the tutorials is a big task, but maybe it would pay off in the end. -- Kim F. Storm http://www.cua.dk