From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: call for more ert tests Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 21:18:48 +0200 Message-ID: References: <838v1zjrnl.fsf@gnu.org> <8361x3jqsy.fsf@gnu.org> <8338s7jp53.fsf@gnu.org> <87bo6vb8uo.fsf@wanadoo.es> <83ehbqi5lj.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1372187957 4647 80.91.229.3 (25 Jun 2013 19:19:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 19:19:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 25 21:19:18 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UrYlp-0002yH-Ff for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 25 Jun 2013 21:19:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59980 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UrYlp-0001uh-1g for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 25 Jun 2013 15:19:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51088) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UrYli-0001mj-6A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jun 2013 15:19:13 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UrYld-0000cz-UO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jun 2013 15:19:10 -0400 Original-Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:44265) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UrYld-0000c2-Kv; Tue, 25 Jun 2013 15:19:05 -0400 Original-Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UrYlM-0000Wy-GL; Tue, 25 Jun 2013 21:18:48 +0200 Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAHlBMVEUAAAB3US8SDg1tRiSh gmQAAAGGYT9lPh0CAAEBAQK0bULBAAACb0lEQVQ4jXWTsY7bMAyGtXTwKMiQ96TAwaMqw0bHFITe IENGXQR1dnyIkDfobcYVKaq37U/JyU1lHMPWp5+kaFLkLJr8nquteM5rbpo1Czw0+WFC5CbXVwDg p0CIx66iEJ/rgp+bdT1BC1cN9jV53RRYF0UhxP14Op7y/X4Sx/sx4+EO4KX6nqbFSliM0XstlZK9 yF0nX4fz1UVHkVws5jXAn9frj/Y8huhCXZUaF8Dvn3Iftp28jO3Rx16U4wXjU1qkNVFZ3KIPD5Bm jp+sVNgAXQEgYfZXjmnY2VwBH1DQ4AqwY4zOnGPwPc6KklIbr1FrBCoKItmX8qw0RBwkHlIKjmY6 BFXAyq7eiEKXlkBUAvWiaRgEtyjOaNYyjgfNAHUWglqXloRMLWykQK4ER1YtpWJMBq5YzxHWJyiH HAkEMWq6Fdg0JRsoRrptWQFM1VcatatZlXO052SnCqykWt2q6GrwZLoZ644urFhF204b4NpKTSUG ui606gHmaI2mcCt9hJLYJ7DWDw6K0mbUWlP8TOWII6db2g+AD7EgswWk3WIwSBXYUpUxuNv2PYIt 9ZMssaMysQJBpA36wxqFktjxbM0TxCkZKBgYU0DmGAOR5XUtEcMoVQDa/cubI8MhZLd9rKLAFHxF j+INCnYl7UOR94t2SnI32wm6p0IMlqQyGA92GOMn8EajnXHTPDuEjG/ivQI0kwQIHg4d/lxE9Lsf sRO+fJ0dz6DPH/nX3vAEWhmRndPxUBS5//v+RmcOC1dU5tPqb3X2r6TmbuEhYD/Spvki8qftdrge Jnb9B//K+m532V/ml+XykgD+Y/8AnAhbZpEQk5oAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Swell Maps's _Jane From Occupied Europe_: "Big Empty Field" X-Hashcash: 1:23:130625:emacs-devel@gnu.org::EXdnP3supOgj6LGV:000000000000000000000000000000000000000000B62L X-Hashcash: 1:23:130625:eliz@gnu.org::RaYyZYzE5O1gGH4O:00001lFLx In-Reply-To: <83ehbqi5lj.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 25 Jun 2013 18:15:52 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130008 (Ma Gnus v0.8) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-MailScanner-ID: 1UrYlM-0000Wy-GL MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1372792729.06276@C579+SpScaOI2b3Hu6Hr8w X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.224.195 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:161041 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> I think the bar to contributing to Emacs is high enough as it is without >> adding further requirements. > > I don't know why you are saying this. Please elaborate by comparing > with other projects whose bar is significantly lower. You want names of projects that have a lower bar for contributions? Or what it is that makes the bar higher for Emacs than with these other projects? 1) The Linux kernel. 2) Both the Emacs Lisp language and the sorta-kinda C layer are novel ideas for most novices; the copyright assignment paperwork; the unfamiliar VC; the many unfamiliar concepts that Emacs has compared to most other projects (buffers, encodings); the interaction between the Lisp bits and the C bits; the way the C bits aren't compiled with -Wall, so you get little help from the compiler... You may be used to all the Emacs internals, but poking around in Emacs is pretty daunting compared to simple stuff like the Linux kernel. > In fact, I believe that only an appearance of a very dedicated person > who would do the job is the only alternative to a strict policy of > requiring tests with each changeset. How probable is that such an > alternative materializes any time soon, in your opinion? Unlikely, and I don't favour a huge set of automated tests, anyway, so I'm happy about that. If I decide that shr should render
  • differently than I originally thought it should, I'm very happy that I don't have a slew of unit tests for the HTML rendering. Because then I'm done after changing the
  • rendering, and I don't have to touch up however many ert tests that this affects. None of us have unlimited time to spend on this stuff, and what doesn't help us doesn't help us, no matter what the current orthodoxies surrounding testing says. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/