Re: emacs-25 7c1f66a: Support for the new Xwidget feature.

Re: emacs-25 7c1f66a: Support for the new Xwidget feature.

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Joakim Verona <joakim@verona.se> writes:

>     Support for the new Xwidget feature.

Hey, this is awesome.  Now I don't have to leave Emacs to watch Youtube,
either.  :-)

I found a way to crash it, though.  I load any URL in xwidget and then
press <prior>, and Emacs segfaults.  (This is on Debian 7.)

Backtrace:
./src/emacs(emacs_backtrace+0x3d)[0x53946d]
./src/emacs(terminate_due_to_signal+0x4b)[0x52033b]
./src/emacs[0x537d28]
./src/emacs[0x537d5a]
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpthread.so.0(+0xf0a0)[0x7f2b70de50a0]
./src/emacs[0x5ad6ef]
./src/emacs(Fprin1+0x80)[0x5afe60]
./src/emacs(print_error_message+0xea)[0x5b040a]
./src/emacs(Fcommand_error_default_function+0xc9)[0x522899]
./src/emacs(Ffuncall+0x3a9)[0x593499]
./src/emacs(call3+0x24)[0x593634]
./src/emacs(cmd_error_internal+0x8b)[0x5243eb]
./src/emacs[0x52451c]
./src/emacs(internal_condition_case+0x65)[0x591cd5]
./src/emacs[0x5229cc]
./src/emacs(internal_catch+0x4b)[0x591d2b]
./src/emacs[0x522987]
./src/emacs(recursive_edit_1+0x58)[0x524008]
./src/emacs(Frecursive_edit+0xed)[0x52433d]
./src/emacs(main+0x988)[0x452fa8]
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6(__libc_start_main+0xfd)[0x7f2b7085bead]

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Re: emacs-25 7c1f66a: Support for the new Xwidget feature.

[joakim]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Joakim Verona <joakim@verona.se> writes:
>
>>     Support for the new Xwidget feature.
>
> Hey, this is awesome.  Now I don't have to leave Emacs to watch Youtube,
> either.  :-)
>
> I found a way to crash it, though.  I load any URL in xwidget and then
> press <prior>, and Emacs segfaults.  (This is on Debian 7.)
>
> Backtrace:
> ./src/emacs(emacs_backtrace+0x3d)[0x53946d]
> ./src/emacs(terminate_due_to_signal+0x4b)[0x52033b]
> ./src/emacs[0x537d28]
> ./src/emacs[0x537d5a]
> /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpthread.so.0(+0xf0a0)[0x7f2b70de50a0]
> ./src/emacs[0x5ad6ef]
> ./src/emacs(Fprin1+0x80)[0x5afe60]
> ./src/emacs(print_error_message+0xea)[0x5b040a]
> ./src/emacs(Fcommand_error_default_function+0xc9)[0x522899]
> ./src/emacs(Ffuncall+0x3a9)[0x593499]
> ./src/emacs(call3+0x24)[0x593634]
> ./src/emacs(cmd_error_internal+0x8b)[0x5243eb]
> ./src/emacs[0x52451c]
> ./src/emacs(internal_condition_case+0x65)[0x591cd5]
> ./src/emacs[0x5229cc]
> ./src/emacs(internal_catch+0x4b)[0x591d2b]
> ./src/emacs[0x522987]
> ./src/emacs(recursive_edit_1+0x58)[0x524008]
> ./src/emacs(Frecursive_edit+0xed)[0x52433d]
> ./src/emacs(main+0x988)[0x452fa8]
> /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6(__libc_start_main+0xfd)[0x7f2b7085bead]

This was actually made me laugh, because I have spent a pretty large
amount of time testing this thing. Yet you manage to crash it in minutes
:)

You have <prior> bound to xwidget-webkit-scroll-down right?

It works for me here.

I guess I will need to make a Debian machine to test this.

-- 
Joakim Verona

Re: emacs-25 7c1f66a: Support for the new Xwidget feature.

[Clément Pit--Claudel]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1592 bytes --]

Indeed, it's really nice progress; thanks Joakim! I'm having an issue too, however:

Running xwidget-webkit-browse-url yields `read-string: Symbol’s value as variable is void: xwidget-view-list`.
And then I can't exit emacs: all commands yield that message.

Clément.

On 01/19/2016 03:35 PM, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> Joakim Verona <joakim@verona.se> writes:
> 
>>     Support for the new Xwidget feature.
> 
> Hey, this is awesome.  Now I don't have to leave Emacs to watch Youtube,
> either.  :-)
> 
> I found a way to crash it, though.  I load any URL in xwidget and then
> press <prior>, and Emacs segfaults.  (This is on Debian 7.)
> 
> Backtrace:
> ./src/emacs(emacs_backtrace+0x3d)[0x53946d]
> ./src/emacs(terminate_due_to_signal+0x4b)[0x52033b]
> ./src/emacs[0x537d28]
> ./src/emacs[0x537d5a]
> /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpthread.so.0(+0xf0a0)[0x7f2b70de50a0]
> ./src/emacs[0x5ad6ef]
> ./src/emacs(Fprin1+0x80)[0x5afe60]
> ./src/emacs(print_error_message+0xea)[0x5b040a]
> ./src/emacs(Fcommand_error_default_function+0xc9)[0x522899]
> ./src/emacs(Ffuncall+0x3a9)[0x593499]
> ./src/emacs(call3+0x24)[0x593634]
> ./src/emacs(cmd_error_internal+0x8b)[0x5243eb]
> ./src/emacs[0x52451c]
> ./src/emacs(internal_condition_case+0x65)[0x591cd5]
> ./src/emacs[0x5229cc]
> ./src/emacs(internal_catch+0x4b)[0x591d2b]
> ./src/emacs[0x522987]
> ./src/emacs(recursive_edit_1+0x58)[0x524008]
> ./src/emacs(Frecursive_edit+0xed)[0x52433d]
> ./src/emacs(main+0x988)[0x452fa8]
> /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6(__libc_start_main+0xfd)[0x7f2b7085bead]
> 


[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 836 bytes --]

Re: emacs-25 7c1f66a: Support for the new Xwidget feature.

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

joakim@verona.se writes:

> This was actually made me laugh, because I have spent a pretty large
> amount of time testing this thing. Yet you manage to crash it in minutes
> :)

:-)

> You have <prior> bound to xwidget-webkit-scroll-down right?

Yup:

---
<prior> runs the command xwidget-webkit-scroll-down (found in
xwidget-webkit-mode-map), which is an interactive compiled Lisp
function in ‘xwidget.el’.

It is bound to DEL, S-SPC, <prior>, M-v.

(xwidget-webkit-scroll-down)

Scroll webkit down,either native or like image mode.
---

None of the other scrolling commands crash Emacs, just that one...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Re: emacs-25 7c1f66a: Support for the new Xwidget feature.

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Clément Pit--Claudel <clement.pit@gmail.com> writes:

> Indeed, it's really nice progress; thanks Joakim! I'm having an issue
> too, however:
>
> Running xwidget-webkit-browse-url yields `read-string: Symbol’s value
> as variable is void: xwidget-view-list`.

I'm not seeing that behaviour, but I compiled with "make bootstrap"...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Re: emacs-25 7c1f66a: Support for the new Xwidget feature.

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

I also tried it on my Ubuntu 15.10 laptop, and it works without a hitch
there.

Hm...  I'm wondering if I could use this in eww just to embed video
objects and the like...  Hm...  I see that Youtube embeds are done as
iframes, but one doesn't really know what's inside those iframes before
they are loaded.  eww doesn't do iframes at all, but I guess it could.

But it doesn't really help with determining whether the contents of the
frame is a video or not -- all that's done by a Javascript blob.

Perhaps some heuristics to figure out the xwidget handover.

Don't mind me, I'm just thinking out loud.  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Re: emacs-25 7c1f66a: Support for the new Xwidget feature.

[Rasmus]

Clément Pit--Claudel <clement.pit@gmail.com> writes:

> Indeed, it's really nice progress; thanks Joakim! I'm having an issue too, however:
>
> Running xwidget-webkit-browse-url yields `read-string: Symbol’s value
> as variable is void: xwidget-view-list`.
> And then I can't exit emacs: all commands yield that message.

I'm seeing this error too.  I have webkitgtk v2.4.9.

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> I'm not seeing that behaviour, but I compiled with "make bootstrap"...

... And I compiled with "make bootstrap".

Thanks,
Rasmus

PS: Watching videos in Emacs would be cool!

-- 
This is the kind of tedious nonsense up with which I will not put

Re: emacs-25 7c1f66a: Support for the new Xwidget feature.

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:

> Clément Pit--Claudel <clement.pit@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Indeed, it's really nice progress; thanks Joakim! I'm having an
>> issue too, however:
>>
>> Running xwidget-webkit-browse-url yields `read-string: Symbol’s value
>> as variable is void: xwidget-view-list`.
>> And then I can't exit emacs: all commands yield that message.
>
> I'm seeing this error too.  I have webkitgtk v2.4.9.

I seem to get a similar error message (but without the exit-erroring
thing) unless I say:

./configure --with-xwidgets --with-x-toolkit=gtk3 

So there's something funky about when/when not things are compiled in...
And the error message.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Re: emacs-25 7c1f66a: Support for the new Xwidget feature.

[Rasmus]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:
>
>> Clément Pit--Claudel <clement.pit@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Indeed, it's really nice progress; thanks Joakim! I'm having an
>>> issue too, however:
>>>
>>> Running xwidget-webkit-browse-url yields `read-string: Symbol’s value
>>> as variable is void: xwidget-view-list`.
>>> And then I can't exit emacs: all commands yield that message.
>>
>> I'm seeing this error too.  I have webkitgtk v2.4.9.
>
> I seem to get a similar error message (but without the exit-erroring
> thing) unless I say:
>
> ./configure --with-xwidgets --with-x-toolkit=gtk3 

Thanks, but no luck. I added that and rebuild (with make bootstrap).

My flags are:

--prefix=/usr --sysconfdir=/etc --libexecdir=/usr/lib --localstatedir=/var --mandir=/usr/share/man --pdfdir=/usr/share/doc/emacs/pdf --with-sound=alsa --with-xwidgets --with-x-toolkit=gtk3 --with-xft

But I will try to trim some away.  And maybe try to --with-module...

./configure tells me:

      Does Emacs support Xwidgets (requires gtk3)?        yes
      Does xwidgets support webkit?                       yes
      Does xwidgets support gobject introspection?        yes

> So there's something funky about when/when not things are compiled in...
> And the error message.

I now get:

Debugger entered--Lisp error: (void-function make-xwidget)
  make-xwidget(1 1 webkit-osr "*xwidget-webkit*" 1000 1000 nil)
  xwidget-insert(1 webkit-osr "*xwidget-webkit*" 1000 1000)
  xwidget-webkit-new-session("http://gnu.org")
  xwidget-webkit-goto-url("http://gnu.org")
  xwidget-webkit-browse-url("http://gnu.org" nil)
  funcall-interactively(xwidget-webkit-browse-url "http://gnu.org" nil)
  call-interactively(xwidget-webkit-browse-url record nil)
  command-execute(xwidget-webkit-browse-url record)
  execute-extended-command(nil "xwidget-webkit-browse-url" nil)
  funcall-interactively(execute-extended-command nil "xwidget-webkit-browse-url" nil)
  call-interactively(execute-extended-command nil nil)
  command-execute(execute-extended-command)

Thanks,
Rasmus

-- 
The right to be left alone is a human right

Re: emacs-25 7c1f66a: Support for the new Xwidget feature.

[joakim]

Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:

> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
>
>> Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:
>>
>>> Clément Pit--Claudel <clement.pit@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Indeed, it's really nice progress; thanks Joakim! I'm having an
>>>> issue too, however:
>>>>
>>>> Running xwidget-webkit-browse-url yields `read-string: Symbol’s value
>>>> as variable is void: xwidget-view-list`.
>>>> And then I can't exit emacs: all commands yield that message.
>>>
>>> I'm seeing this error too.  I have webkitgtk v2.4.9.
>>
>> I seem to get a similar error message (but without the exit-erroring
>> thing) unless I say:
>>
>> ./configure --with-xwidgets --with-x-toolkit=gtk3 
>
> Thanks, but no luck. I added that and rebuild (with make bootstrap).
>
> My flags are:
>
> --prefix=/usr --sysconfdir=/etc --libexecdir=/usr/lib --localstatedir=/var --mandir=/usr/share/man --pdfdir=/usr/share/doc/emacs/pdf --with-sound=alsa --with-xwidgets --with-x-toolkit=gtk3 --with-xft
>
> But I will try to trim some away.  And maybe try to --with-module...
>
> ./configure tells me:
>
>       Does Emacs support Xwidgets (requires gtk3)?        yes
>       Does xwidgets support webkit?                       yes
>       Does xwidgets support gobject introspection?        yes
>
>> So there's something funky about when/when not things are compiled in...
>> And the error message.
>
> I now get:
>
> Debugger entered--Lisp error: (void-function make-xwidget)
>   make-xwidget(1 1 webkit-osr "*xwidget-webkit*" 1000 1000 nil)
>   xwidget-insert(1 webkit-osr "*xwidget-webkit*" 1000 1000)
>   xwidget-webkit-new-session("http://gnu.org")
>   xwidget-webkit-goto-url("http://gnu.org")
>   xwidget-webkit-browse-url("http://gnu.org" nil)
>   funcall-interactively(xwidget-webkit-browse-url "http://gnu.org" nil)
>   call-interactively(xwidget-webkit-browse-url record nil)
>   command-execute(xwidget-webkit-browse-url record)
>   execute-extended-command(nil "xwidget-webkit-browse-url" nil)
>   funcall-interactively(execute-extended-command nil "xwidget-webkit-browse-url" nil)
>   call-interactively(execute-extended-command nil nil)
>   command-execute(execute-extended-command)

Can you try m-x load-library xwidget ?

>
> Thanks,
> Rasmus

-- 
Joakim Verona

Re: emacs-25 7c1f66a: Support for the new Xwidget feature.

[joakim]

joakim@verona.se writes:

> Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:
>
>> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
>>
>>> Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:
>>>
>>>> Clément Pit--Claudel <clement.pit@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Indeed, it's really nice progress; thanks Joakim! I'm having an
>>>>> issue too, however:
>>>>>
>>>>> Running xwidget-webkit-browse-url yields `read-string: Symbol’s value
>>>>> as variable is void: xwidget-view-list`.
>>>>> And then I can't exit emacs: all commands yield that message.
>>>>
>>>> I'm seeing this error too.  I have webkitgtk v2.4.9.
>>>
>>> I seem to get a similar error message (but without the exit-erroring
>>> thing) unless I say:
>>>
>>> ./configure --with-xwidgets --with-x-toolkit=gtk3 
>>
>> Thanks, but no luck. I added that and rebuild (with make bootstrap).
>>
>> My flags are:
>>
>> --prefix=/usr --sysconfdir=/etc --libexecdir=/usr/lib --localstatedir=/var --mandir=/usr/share/man --pdfdir=/usr/share/doc/emacs/pdf --with-sound=alsa --with-xwidgets --with-x-toolkit=gtk3 --with-xft
>>
>> But I will try to trim some away.  And maybe try to --with-module...
>>
>> ./configure tells me:
>>
>>       Does Emacs support Xwidgets (requires gtk3)?        yes
>>       Does xwidgets support webkit?                       yes
>>       Does xwidgets support gobject introspection?        yes
>>
>>> So there's something funky about when/when not things are compiled in...
>>> And the error message.
>>
>> I now get:
>>
>> Debugger entered--Lisp error: (void-function make-xwidget)
>>   make-xwidget(1 1 webkit-osr "*xwidget-webkit*" 1000 1000 nil)
>>   xwidget-insert(1 webkit-osr "*xwidget-webkit*" 1000 1000)
>>   xwidget-webkit-new-session("http://gnu.org")>   xwidget-webkit-goto-url("http://gnu.org")>   xwidget-webkit-browse-url("http://gnu.org" nil)
>>   funcall-interactively(xwidget-webkit-browse-url "http://gnu.org" nil)
>>   call-interactively(xwidget-webkit-browse-url record nil)
>>   command-execute(xwidget-webkit-browse-url record)
>>   execute-extended-command(nil "xwidget-webkit-browse-url" nil)
>>   funcall-interactively(execute-extended-command nil "xwidget-webkit-browse-url" nil)
>>   call-interactively(execute-extended-command nil nil)
>>   command-execute(execute-extended-command)
>
> Can you try m-x load-library xwidget ?

OTOH, make-xwidget is defined in C. So, load-library wouldnt do
anything. hmm.


>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Rasmus

-- 
Joakim Verona

Re: emacs-25 7c1f66a: Support for the new Xwidget feature.

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us>
> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 12:05:21 +0100
> 
> ./configure tells me:
> 
>       Does Emacs support Xwidgets (requires gtk3)?        yes
>       Does xwidgets support webkit?                       yes
>       Does xwidgets support gobject introspection?        yes
> 
> > So there's something funky about when/when not things are compiled in...
> > And the error message.
> 
> I now get:
> 
> Debugger entered--Lisp error: (void-function make-xwidget)
>   make-xwidget(1 1 webkit-osr "*xwidget-webkit*" 1000 1000 nil)
>   xwidget-insert(1 webkit-osr "*xwidget-webkit*" 1000 1000)
>   xwidget-webkit-new-session("http://gnu.org")
>   xwidget-webkit-goto-url("http://gnu.org")
>   xwidget-webkit-browse-url("http://gnu.org" nil)
>   funcall-interactively(xwidget-webkit-browse-url "http://gnu.org" nil)
>   call-interactively(xwidget-webkit-browse-url record nil)
>   command-execute(xwidget-webkit-browse-url record)
>   execute-extended-command(nil "xwidget-webkit-browse-url" nil)
>   funcall-interactively(execute-extended-command nil "xwidget-webkit-browse-url" nil)
>   call-interactively(execute-extended-command nil nil)
>   command-execute(execute-extended-command)

Do you see a file xwidget.o in the 'src' directory?

What does the following line says in src/Makefile:

  ## xwidgets.o if HAVE_XWIDGETS, else empty.
  XWIDGETS_OBJ =

Does src/config.h say

  /* #undef HAVE_XWIDGETS */

or does it say

  #define HAVE_XWIDGETS 1

?

Re: emacs-25 7c1f66a: Support for the new Xwidget feature.

[Rasmus]

Hi,

Thanks for the help to both of you.  It got it working now!  I don’t know
what the error was.  At first I thought it had something to do with how I
build packages on my system, but it works now.

Eli, thanks for the hints wrt. the Makefile.  Indeed, xwidgets.o was not
created, which explains why nothing was working.  I still don’t understand
why it was not created before.

BTW Joakim, is it a feature that I must explicitly add "https?://" to urls
(via g).

Rasmus

-- 
And when I’m finished thinking, I have to die a lot

Re: emacs-25 7c1f66a: Support for the new Xwidget feature.

[joakim]

Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:

> Hi,
>
> Thanks for the help to both of you.  It got it working now!  I don’t know
> what the error was.  At first I thought it had something to do with how I
> build packages on my system, but it works now.
>
> Eli, thanks for the hints wrt. the Makefile.  Indeed, xwidgets.o was not
> created, which explains why nothing was working.  I still don’t understand
> why it was not created before.

Okay, thanks for testing!

> BTW Joakim, is it a feature that I must explicitly add "https?://" to urls
> (via g).

Well, the main xwidget branch has a change to the urllib such that it
tries to infer http. But I didn't want to include such changes in this
first merge, since it needs to be discussed first.

>
> Rasmus

-- 
Joakim Verona

Re: emacs-25 7c1f66a: Support for the new Xwidget feature.

[joakim]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> I also tried it on my Ubuntu 15.10 laptop, and it works without a hitch
> there.
>
> Hm...  I'm wondering if I could use this in eww just to embed video
> objects and the like...  Hm...  I see that Youtube embeds are done as
> iframes, but one doesn't really know what's inside those iframes before
> they are loaded.  eww doesn't do iframes at all, but I guess it could.
>
> But it doesn't really help with determining whether the contents of the
> frame is a video or not -- all that's done by a Javascript blob.
>
> Perhaps some heuristics to figure out the xwidget handover.
>
> Don't mind me, I'm just thinking out loud.  :-)

It will be nice to see what you come up with!

I have been thinking that it would be nice with some kind of integration
with eww and the xwidget browser. 

-- 
Joakim Verona

Re: emacs-25 7c1f66a: Support for the new Xwidget feature.

[joakim]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Joakim Verona <joakim@verona.se> writes:
>
>>     Support for the new Xwidget feature.
>
> Hey, this is awesome.  Now I don't have to leave Emacs to watch Youtube,
> either.  :-)
>
> I found a way to crash it, though.  I load any URL in xwidget and then
> press <prior>, and Emacs segfaults.  (This is on Debian 7.)
>
> Backtrace:
> ./src/emacs(emacs_backtrace+0x3d)[0x53946d]
> ./src/emacs(terminate_due_to_signal+0x4b)[0x52033b]
> ./src/emacs[0x537d28]
> ./src/emacs[0x537d5a]
> /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpthread.so.0(+0xf0a0)[0x7f2b70de50a0]
> ./src/emacs[0x5ad6ef]
> ./src/emacs(Fprin1+0x80)[0x5afe60]
> ./src/emacs(print_error_message+0xea)[0x5b040a]
> ./src/emacs(Fcommand_error_default_function+0xc9)[0x522899]
> ./src/emacs(Ffuncall+0x3a9)[0x593499]
> ./src/emacs(call3+0x24)[0x593634]
> ./src/emacs(cmd_error_internal+0x8b)[0x5243eb]
> ./src/emacs[0x52451c]
> ./src/emacs(internal_condition_case+0x65)[0x591cd5]
> ./src/emacs[0x5229cc]
> ./src/emacs(internal_catch+0x4b)[0x591d2b]
> ./src/emacs[0x522987]
> ./src/emacs(recursive_edit_1+0x58)[0x524008]
> ./src/emacs(Frecursive_edit+0xed)[0x52433d]
> ./src/emacs(main+0x988)[0x452fa8]
> /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6(__libc_start_main+0xfd)[0x7f2b7085bead]

I wasn't able to reproduce this.

Basically I made a Debian 7 docker image and attached X to it.

Do you remember which site you tried?


-- 
Joakim Verona

Re: emacs-25 7c1f66a: Support for the new Xwidget feature.

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

joakim@verona.se writes:

> Do you remember which site you tried?

I think it was with any site, basically, if I remember correctly.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no