From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Reordering etc/NEWS Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 10:57:35 +0200 Message-ID: References: <2wmz0iriyj.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1178701082 2248 80.91.229.12 (9 May 2007 08:58:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 08:58:02 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed May 09 10:58:00 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Hlhzk-0006tY-9J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 09 May 2007 10:58:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hli6u-0005nm-Nb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 09 May 2007 05:05:24 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hli6m-0005md-2l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 May 2007 05:05:16 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hli6k-0005l1-3U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 May 2007 05:05:14 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hli6i-0005kf-Uw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 May 2007 05:05:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-relay.sonofon.dk ([212.88.64.25]) by monty-python.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HlhzX-0005LJ-1t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 May 2007 04:57:47 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 22717 invoked from network); 9 May 2007 08:57:44 -0000 Original-Received: from unknown (HELO kfs-l.imdomain.dk.cua.dk) (213.83.150.2) by 0 with SMTP; 9 May 2007 08:57:44 -0000 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Tue\, 08 May 2007 14\:09\:08 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.98 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: FreeBSD 4.6-4.9 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70676 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > But we are not your enemies, and this is not a conspiracy to badger > you. It just happened that quite a few of us disagree with your ideas > > And some of them have been badgering me to do things their way. I don't > want to participate in discussions with that feel to them. I don't know if you feel that _I_ have been badgering you, but that has never been my intention -- my only concern has been for the best of the project. You obviously have very specific ideas and principles on how to "make progress towards" a release -- but it is also a fact (IMO) that those ideas are not efficient in terms of actually "making" a release. In my professional work, I have a lot of experience with making releases actually happen -- at regular and _planned_ intervals, as well as making interrim (often customer specific) releases of big and complex software. So I know that _my_ principles works! I don't understand why you take it as a personal offence to even question or discuss your principles. AFAICS, most people on the team agree that they have failed miserably. Ok, we are very close to a release now, but it's been 6 years since the last major release. The problem with your principles is not only the (forever delayed) release as such, but just as much the implied "feature freeze" which is really blocking a lot of new development on the project. The current feature freeze has now lasted for more than 3 years, during which Emacs _development_ has practically been at a stand-still, so it is no wonder your team of _loyal_ developers is getting frustrated and starts to question your principles, and may start looking for other (more productive) projects to work on. That -- and only that -- is my concern. Whether you then feel offended or badgered by my concerns and the ways I have expressed them (I admit to have been exaggerating at times due to my growing frustration) is your choice. -- Kim F. Storm http://www.cua.dk