From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: joakim@verona.se Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Infrastructural complexity. Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:17:22 +0200 Message-ID: References: <20090712180623.GA1009@muc.de> <1247966060.7410.63.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <4A62F7AD.4000609@gmx.at> <87eiscn223.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <4A643993.5080302@gmx.at> <87ljmjl9ow.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <4A648E1D.1000007@gmx.at> <877hy3l3kj.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <4A64BF58.4030001@gmx.at> <871vobkny7.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <4A658CD2.8020504@gmx.at> <1248195599.7551.26.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <4A65FA0E.6020800@gmx.at> <1248200131.7551.75.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <4A66E607.9030505@gmx.at> <1248280114.7109.33.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <4A67593D.6020908@gmx.at> <1248289454.7109.47.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <4A682C53.2080307@gmx.at> <1248375083.15583.9.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1248376673 10127 80.91.229.12 (23 Jul 2009 19:17:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:17:53 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, cyd@stupidchicken.com, lennart.borgman@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, juri@jurta.org, martin rudalics , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, acm@muc.de, drew.adams@oracle.com, Miles Bader To: Thomas Lord Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 23 21:17:44 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MU3nS-00083E-DL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:17:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58031 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MU3nR-0002BG-Kl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:17:41 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MU3nN-0002BB-9j for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:17:37 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MU3nH-0002Az-SZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:17:36 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=36179 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MU3nH-0002Aw-M3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:17:31 -0400 Original-Received: from iwfs.imcode.com ([82.115.149.64]:39025 helo=gate.verona.se) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MU3nE-00059R-Jo; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:17:29 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost.localdomain (IDENT:1005@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gate.verona.se (8.13.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id n6NJHMSn019962; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:17:22 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1248375083.15583.9.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> (Thomas Lord's message of "Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:51:23 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.94 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:113064 Archived-At: Thomas Lord writes: > On Thu, 2009-07-23 at 11:24 +0200, martin rudalics wrote: > >> > Did I misunderstand something? >> >> Not at all. Only window groups are guaranteed to form rectangles. I >> never claimed that the remaining windows would add up to a rectangle. >> And obviously you can't retrieve the remaining windows by calling >> `window-list'. You can subtract the windows in a window group from the >> windows returned by `window-list' to get the "remaining" windows. > > That's a fine example of how window-groups > are not quite the right concept here. > > I understand you to say that `window-list' > should (by default) return all of the windows, > grouped or not. That won't DTRT in the use > cases of greatest interest - where "groups" > are supposed to be control panels around an > edit area. Just the windows in the edit area > should be returned by default. > > That is, it seems to me - and yes this is > necessarily just an opinion about user > interfaces - that the edit area windows > should behave exactly like a traditional > Emacs frame. For example, C-x o navigates > (normally) just among the edit area windows. > Normal splitting or deleting of a window changes > only edit area windows. Programs that look for, > say, a largest window to use to pop up some > buffer should look only to the edit area (unless > explicitly written to do otherwise). It should > take a special gesture (keystroke or mouse, different > from C-x o) to select a window in a control panel > and, once its selected the set of windows in that > control panel are then the focus (the C-x o ring, > etc.). The way I see window groups, they behave like you describe. I have, however, lost track of this thread, so I might probably miss something. > > Emacs already has a way to segregate groups of > windows in that way: frames. That's what > gives rise to the idea that control panels are > mostly just a new way to render certain frames. > > > > > -t > -- Joakim Verona