From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: joakim@verona.se Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [RFC] Micro-Init files in GNU ELPA Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2013 15:45:15 +0100 Message-ID: References: <8761ra7uq3.fsf@yandex.ru> <6c891113-22b0-4f3d-afc9-a735548efbbb@default> <87pppdu2tb.fsf_-_@gmail.com> <87li0039d0.fsf_-_@flea.lifelogs.com> <87a9gfx5um.fsf@gmail.com> <877gbj1ih2.fsf@flea.lifelogs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1386254744 21369 80.91.229.3 (5 Dec 2013 14:45:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 14:45:44 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 05 15:45:50 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VoaBZ-0000B9-5o for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 15:45:49 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53879 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VoaBY-0006MO-R6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 09:45:48 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47823) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VoaBP-0006MG-84 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 09:45:45 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VoaBJ-0004FP-0f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 09:45:38 -0500 Original-Received: from mx2.bahnhof.se ([213.80.101.12]:50738) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VoaBI-0004F4-M0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 09:45:32 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost (mf.bahnhof.se [213.80.101.20]) by mx2-reinject (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48AFE7AF0DA for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2013 15:45:30 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new using ClamAV at bahnhof.se (MF4) Original-Received: from mf4.bahnhof.se ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mf4.bahnhof.se [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kZFbNMhyX-4B for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2013 15:45:26 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from mta.verona.se (h-235-102.a149.priv.bahnhof.se [85.24.235.102]) by mf4.bahnhof.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE27D3D7828 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2013 15:45:26 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mta.verona.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E6814FDE89 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2013 14:45:16 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at verona.se Original-Received: from mta.verona.se ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (exodia.verona.se [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gsTGHA8dF4II for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2013 15:45:15 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from exodia.verona.se (www.verona.se [192.168.200.15]) by mta.verona.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CBD74FDE5F for ; Thu, 5 Dec 2013 15:45:15 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <877gbj1ih2.fsf@flea.lifelogs.com> (Ted Zlatanov's message of "Thu, 05 Dec 2013 09:27:05 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130006 (Ma Gnus v0.6) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Mac OS X 10.x X-Received-From: 213.80.101.12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:166120 Archived-At: Ted Zlatanov writes: > On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 10:16:25 +0530 Jambunathan K wrote: > > JK> Ted Zlatanov writes: >>> I think all of these will cause problems >>> >>> - deprecation of variables >>> - incompatibility of snippets >>> - dependencies >>> - loss of configurability and visibility >>> - bug and maintenance burden on the submitters >>> - documentation (or lack thereof) > > JK> My suggestion acknowledges the existing behaviour and merely > JK> systematizes it. > > JK> My suggestion is a practical suggestion that need to be tested on the > JK> field and dismissed with a theoretical object. > > Your suggestion is completely impractical if it doesn't consider the > practical problems I listed. Saying "like GNU ELPA but for > configuration snippets" is like saying "like a car but flying and for > giraffes." Let's talk about how it will fly. > >>> I personally would not use or enjoy such a system. > > JK> That's precisely the point. You don't have to. > > JK> Installing packages from GNU ELPA is optional. Most intermediate to > JK> expert Emacs users will not use such a system. > > JK> But new users will. > > I am intermediate-to-expert and I use and love the GNU ELPA. I'd love > to see a new way to configure Emacs; I remember discussing Assistants on > emacs-devel a while back. Assistants are interactive wizards, > implemented by Lars years ago in Gnus but I have yet to figure out how > to use them as a programmer. Assistants are much closer to what I'd > like to see in Emacs for new users. > > Packages and configuration snippets are completely different things. > If you want to argue that they can be treated the same way at the user > level, take the practical concerns I listed into consideration. Those > are concerns with any package system you present to a user. There is already a "configuration snippet system" deployed to GNU ELPA. The various color themes provided there. I use something similar locally: https://github.com/jave/zen-mode It provides a means to switch between different emacs setups, defined as themes. So, if you would like to deploy a bunch of particular settings together as a theme , you can already do that. You cant meaningfully deploy a theme that requires user action like this of course. That would require something like the "Assistant" idea. However, I think theres room for both ideas, as already evidenced by colour themes. > Ted > > -- Joakim Verona