From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Patch to remove minor modes in tutorial Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:41:23 +0200 Message-ID: References: <449D4787.6030809@student.lu.se> <449EFFBB.80508@student.lu.se> <449FE5AB.1080906@student.lu.se> <44A00F46.3010000@student.lu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1151570652 13560 80.91.229.2 (29 Jun 2006 08:44:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:44:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Kevin Rodgers , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 29 10:44:08 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fvs7u-0004pE-GZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:43:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fvs7u-00082g-1V for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 04:43:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Fvs7f-000818-Uu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 04:43:40 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Fvs7c-0007yJ-Nv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 04:43:38 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fvs7c-0007yG-I0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 04:43:36 -0400 Original-Received: from [195.41.46.236] (helo=pfepb.post.tele.dk) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FvsK5-0000K0-5H; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 04:56:29 -0400 Original-Received: from kfs-l.imdomain.dk.cua.dk (unknown [80.165.4.124]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 495C8A50056; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:43:18 +0200 (CEST) Original-To: rms@gnu.org In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:25:10 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:56274 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > A minor mode that doesn't have an entry in minor-mode-map-alist has > no keybindings (assuming it is not autoloaded -- but if it has not > been loaded yet, it's definitely not turned on and has no effect). > > It is conceivable that a minor mode has other effects that would interfere > with the tutorial. For instance Abbrev mode. > > At the same time, it is possible that a minor mode alters only keys > that the tutorial does not talk about, in which case it does not > interfere with the tutorial. In general, there is a problem with the tutorial and minor-modes: Suppose you get a .emacs from someone, which changes some key bindings. Then you run the tutorial with those minor modes enabled. This may cause the examples/instructions in the tutorial to fail in mysterious ways. That's no good. Now, suppose you run the tutorial with the minor modes temporarily disabled. The tutorial will work just fine, and you will learn the basic commands etc. But when you exit the tutorial, the minor modes are back -- and the stuff that worked in the tutorial no longer works the way the tutorial taught you... That's no good either! Maybe it be better to simply issue a warning at the start of the tutorial if "affecting" minor modes are enabled -- something like this: NOTE: This instance of Emacs has local customizations which may cause some instructions in the tutorial to fail. If that happens, review the local customizations in the file ~/.emacs. -- Kim F. Storm http://www.cua.dk