From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: James Cloos Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Flipping url-show-status default Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2010 18:34:42 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87fwwpkchk.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87sk0phicy.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87d3rsk5m4.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87iq1jigo1.fsf@lifelogs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1286180450 27127 80.91.229.12 (4 Oct 2010 08:20:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 08:20:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ted Zlatanov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 04 10:20:47 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P2gHs-0007Wi-Rf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 04 Oct 2010 10:20:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60938 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1P2gHs-0000QR-6G for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 04 Oct 2010 04:20:44 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=42004 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1P2gHk-0000QI-9e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Oct 2010 04:20:37 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P2gHi-0007KA-L7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Oct 2010 04:20:36 -0400 Original-Received: from eagle.jhcloos.com ([207.210.242.212]:50131) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P2gHi-0007Jo-FU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Oct 2010 04:20:34 -0400 Original-Received: by eagle.jhcloos.com (Postfix, from userid 10) id 472FC40234; Mon, 4 Oct 2010 08:20:08 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jhcloos.com; s=eagle; t=1286180432; bh=hVi7sebQYVWWobJSD7pAUQ+A5UcyS4VzgxiwFxyqChw=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Message-ID: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Fc7oymsu5LNjNhMmcCOxJRx99zgCoHsno664GzjiqH3imbPAe01jxiM7+AWxiMpzb +34GBd/0FKUJ3OU8YZDF9tRabow60RiOtCz+ngCIHY/Zxi7Sg6gAilXZBUZtdytO1l bDzWYlWM/vs7R1rN3ByhRL56r2LefPYGH6JddZbM= Original-Received: from carbon (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by carbon.jhcloos.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAD871D5BF8; Sun, 3 Oct 2010 22:34:42 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <87iq1jigo1.fsf@lifelogs.com> (Ted Zlatanov's message of "Sun, 03 Oct 2010 07:50:38 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABAAAAAQCAYAAAAf8/9hAAAABHNCSVQICAgIfAhkiAAAAI1J REFUOE+lU9ESgCAIg64P1y+ngUdxhl5H8wFbbM0OmUiEhKkCYaZThXCo6KE5sCbA1DDX3genvO4d eBQgEMaM5qy6uWk4SfBYfdu9jvBN9nSVDOKRtwb+I3epboOsOX5pZbJNsBJFvmQQ05YMfieIBnYX FK2N6dOawd97r/e8RjkTLzmMsiVgrAoEugtviCM3v2WzjgAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== Copyright: Copyright 2009 James Cloos OpenPGP: ED7DAEA6; url=http://jhcloos.com/public_key/0xED7DAEA6.asc OpenPGP-Fingerprint: E9E9 F828 61A4 6EA9 0F2B 63E7 997A 9F17 ED7D AEA6 Original-Lines: 31 X-Hashcash: 1:30:101004:tzz@lifelogs.com::m4zm+avrpTVPxYGm:5YF7N X-Hashcash: 1:30:101004:emacs-devel@gnu.org::DYeSzBAv2ZF0D6UE:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000096GQB X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:131316 Archived-At: >>>>> "TZ" == Ted Zlatanov writes: TZ> I think you're underestimating the amount of time and expertise that TZ> went into the Chrome and Firefox UI design. They are quite good. I use ff for sites with faulty ui detection logic and seamonkey as my primary gui browser. It is precisely true that the ff ui is crap compared to sm (which tries to keep the mozilla ui). Everything they could do to make the ui worse is done, from removing regularly-used menu items, to making the context menus harder to use, to breaking the keyboard ui, et al. Nearly every "cool" idea they came up with makes it harder to get work done. And the one good change they made wasn't even their idea; changing the appearance of the uri bar for encrypted links was proposed years earlier in the crypto community. Kudos to the ff team for finally getting the concept into gecko, and for many of the lower-level changes they made. But very much not for the majority of their ui changes. The ff team may *think* they improved the zilla ui, but anyone who has extensively used both can attest that that is a fallacy. Following /their/ tradition of ui redesign is a poor idea. If emacs' progress info is too noisy to follow, then I'm all for cleaning it. Just please do not eliminate it, or simplify it beyond what it needs. -JimC -- James Cloos OpenPGP: 1024D/ED7DAEA6