From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Lisp's future Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 12:48:34 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87wq97i78i.fsf@earlgrey.lan> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1410950970 8822 80.91.229.3 (17 Sep 2014 10:49:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 10:49:30 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Christopher Allan Webber , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 17 12:49:23 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XUCnb-0002oy-IC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 12:49:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43968 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUCnb-0004tr-6C for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 06:49:23 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54104) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUCnT-0004sr-Ep for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 06:49:20 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUCnO-00034P-4c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 06:49:15 -0400 Original-Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:36721) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUCnN-0002qk-UX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 06:49:10 -0400 Original-Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XUCmp-0000jL-0x; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 12:48:35 +0200 Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAJ1BMVEX48fOETVPXqK79/f7v 2dzNgYafAABbJCmhAABkCQz////+//6gAABBZsPXAAACR0lEQVQ4jXXTwWvaUBwH8Aw6GO7kZBV2 6tIVil5aXECyS7VWQuYpGpC6wwZdZsHLTqW3aF7cG/Y+dtMXc/nlMpPlUi89uMDAP2rvPdMYxX1z /PD9PfPLU7hJ52s2Tv5GuPlPhFtjIy91nVe+bENzr1qjKeUZ9KIUVLJZLSvKDHRd7+v6vjGoRJ/1 ZiXPIPgm3PZUz7FBVnDRwYtp3PAodFWgAKdYhmPkHFaPRBrvewKhLYOCvEOhJuydCfM0AJQRnF/o mqaLaRgATBC8q4qarsVwItjO8xA5sotAhrF4dA4rULA9NUOTvOIgaVorBci16MOAvBEPNmFihgzg ogXgbcECMgAnwhacfpQW8KT1+kXtoJL9m4YHCrNO40+gHkfXbFccwlUjpHAPHzbBdBdAOo1P8iM8 1e1xM7RmD9IV+J16V4b9IQe+EolCeAXTTt3IwBDTw414Vxw8p1g3VGfIGo/fg8Hil1NsGMVpFK3h 2WhC4fe9WjcuiWFcJ6OkEVuJL8t1I7cBq135KlAIOfTUtzXbUV06SkKkECQQf4+4UQgaSyuMR/E3 J9bMlJB/OVfuLDceFcPEdJHf9BS8E3JzBY/CaH0GH0XPsCBpdDcaJoXRDiCIw+YodkvIYKsxzhGL 3StipyEo0ZUQy5NXcJcA3xUx6b4Q6ZdSjdUSETgUsMx+bpQCdtvLFDKp94DA9mDCPhYFlb15elQZ Z6BNocBhSf/nvffzwJ4HbdycYuTjDh0lRQYDHKffxkkYGHhX0o11lnzUz5358Q/e7yH95AnLHgAA AABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Dean Blunt & Inga Copeland's _Black is Beautiful_: "(untitled)" X-Hashcash: 1:23:140917:cwebber@dustycloud.org::TIpcZyECuPKfypad:00000000000000000000000000000000000000000vd X-Hashcash: 1:23:140917:monnier@iro.umontreal.ca::jqC4ZX6OqSAUJLZ1:0000000000000000000000000000000000000nuvx X-Hashcash: 1:23:140917:emacs-devel@gnu.org::B8oZr3RbqiLH/t82:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000017EGQ In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Tue, 16 Sep 2014 11:50:54 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130012 (Ma Gnus v0.12) Emacs/24.4.50 (gnu/linux) X-MailScanner-ID: 1XUCmp-0000jL-0x MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1411555715.34734@FOlNLuwKks8KhMV34c4j+Q X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.224.195 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:174407 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: > The only standard language into which Elisp can evolve, AFAICT, is > Common Lisp. [ Now some readers get disappointed, while some others > become excited. ] Yay, excited. I think there's a somewhat greater cultural overlap between Emacs Lisp and Common Lisp people ("get things done") than between Emacs Lisp people and Scheme people ("interesting academically"). Anyway, I think the dangled sorta-promise that Emacs would eventually shift to Guile might have stifled Emacs Lisp development. Whenever somebody has brought up the issue of evolving Emacs Lisp (to multi-threadedness or whatever's fun), they're usually discouraged by others piping in with "oh, Emacs is moving to Guile, anyway, so don't bother". Perhaps if we just say firmly "Emacs Lisp is Emacs Lisp, and should evolve in a Common Lisp direction, but without the whole-sale porting to a third-party system: Please start hacking now" we'd attract people interested in doing low-level language stuff. Doesn't that sound like a fun opportunity? *crosses fingers* -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no