From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Menu suggestion Date: 26 Apr 2004 13:37:56 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1082972917 28506 80.91.224.253 (26 Apr 2004 09:48:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:48:37 +0000 (UTC) Cc: dak@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 26 11:48:28 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BI2iy-000607-00 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:48:28 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BI2ix-0006SS-00 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:48:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BI2ip-0006vE-Hx for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:48:19 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1BI2ij-0006rH-Gj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:48:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1BI2iD-0006T7-95 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:48:12 -0400 Original-Received: from [212.88.64.25] (helo=mail-relay.sonofon.dk) by monty-python.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BI2gB-0005pq-Ax for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:45:35 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 26018 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2004 09:38:12 -0000 Original-Received: from unknown (HELO kfs-l.imdomain.dk.cua.dk) (213.83.150.2) by 0 with SMTP; 26 Apr 2004 09:38:12 -0000 Original-To: Miles Bader In-Reply-To: Original-Lines: 30 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3.50 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:22163 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:22163 Miles Bader writes: > storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) writes: > > So while your point is that to use emacs, the user must be taught a > > non-standard set of cursor movement bindings, my point is that if we > > allow a user to build on his current experience gained from other > > applications, he can more quickly learn to use emacs as a whole. > > It seems to me that this is really only true for the arrow keys, not > for the C-x/C-v, etc. -- which are enabled by default anyway. Yes, the arrow keys (which the user already knows how to operate) are supported, so why waste time on learning the user something in the tutorial which he will - at best - just find obscure, and - at worst - turn him off from learning emacs at all. > > Given that C-x/C-v _interfere_ with normal emacs usage -- and C-x in a > pretty serious way -- it seems unlikely that they're a good method to > `introduce someone to emacs' (naive users, in my observation, do not use > the keyboard for very much at all, they just use the mouse and menus a > lot). What serious way does C-x interfere with normal emacs use ? Ah, yes, you will have problems exiting emacs or opening a file when the region is active, but those are minor problems IMHO -- not severe. -- Kim F. Storm http://www.cua.dk