From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: BEGIN_SRC..END_SRC Date: Sun, 06 May 2012 14:57:50 -0400 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: References: <871umzrvfw.fsf@gmail.com> <87wr4rqg6g.fsf@gmail.com> <83d36j59gv.fsf@gnu.org> <87r4uz58e3.fsf@sec.modprobe.de> <83aa1n57p4.fsf@gnu.org> <5D17181ED92C4552AE8D4404DD035CA0@us.oracle.com> Reply-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1336330690 28713 80.91.229.3 (6 May 2012 18:58:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 18:58:10 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 06 20:58:10 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SR6em-0001FZ-V8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 06 May 2012 20:58:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51459 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SR6em-0005yq-El for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 06 May 2012 14:58:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:49654) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SR6ej-0005yY-LX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 06 May 2012 14:58:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SR6eh-0006k2-OP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 06 May 2012 14:58:05 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:37847) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SR6eh-0006jx-Hs for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 06 May 2012 14:58:03 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SR6ef-0001Ce-G0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 06 May 2012 20:58:01 +0200 Original-Received: from 71.46.49.251 ([71.46.49.251]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 06 May 2012 20:58:01 +0200 Original-Received: from tzz by 71.46.49.251 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 06 May 2012 20:58:01 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 54 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.46.49.251 X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" Mail-Copies-To: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.130004 (Ma Gnus v0.4) Emacs/24.1.50 (darwin) Cancel-Lock: sha1:eOX8DDmbsg1G9TgN6r6Xxbj0ixc= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:150327 Archived-At: On Sun, 6 May 2012 16:18:03 +0200 Lennart Borgman wrote: LB> On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Ted Zlatanov wrote: >> On Sat, 5 May 2012 07:35:29 -0700 "Drew Adams" wrote: >> DA> We discourage the use of HTML messages in GNU mailing lists.  But then DA> Gnus/Org/Emacs goes and rolls its own simulacrum?  And then everyone who is not DA> using Emacs for mail has the obligatory privilege of seeing the DA> markup? >> >> Yup. LB> Free software is dependent on standard, or?? "The nice thing about standards is that you have so many to choose from." Andrew S. Tanenbaum, Computer Networks, 2nd ed. Please realize Drew is grandstanding about two extra lines in e-mail messages, *voluntarily* placed there by the author. Now go read the MIME standard in its entirety and weep. DA> (Note: I would have no problem with the GNU mailing lists NOT discouraging HTML DA> messages.  My point is that we should not (a) discourage HTML and then (b) bring DA> in some artisanal, Emacs-specific markup through the back door.  HTML and XML at DA> least provide (more or less) standard markup that is supported by many clients.) >> >> Nope. LB> Which commonly used mail clients (outside of Emacs) does not support html today? HTML and XML are a complex framework of standards and I'm willing to bet very few mail clients support them fully or need to. Drew was probably talking about MIME as a way to identify and tag attachments, but has merged that notion with HTML because his argument works better against HTML (meaning, MIME is not discouraged on the GNU mailing lists AFAIK). Regardless, Gnus supports inlined MIME attachments and will highlight them correctly, so there's no implicit endorsement by Gnus of either the org-mode or the MIME way to inline code. Very few mail clients don't support MIME, but the org-mode markup is much more like Markdown and such light wiki-style languages[1] than MIME. In other words, you may as well complain about *emphasis*, _underline_, `quote', and such ad-hoc ways to highlight content. I hope this clears things up. Ted [1] e.g. JIRA uses {code:LANGUAGE} and {code} to indicate the beginning and end of code blocks, while Markdown indents code blocks 4 spaces without indicating the specific language.