From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: IDE Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 10:29:04 -0700 Organization: New Artisans LLC Message-ID: References: <5610E0BC.8090902@online.de> <83si5r106e.fsf@gnu.org> <831td9z18h.fsf@gnu.org> <5612E996.7090700@yandex.ru> <83bnc7tavr.fsf@gnu.org> <5618C92A.3040207@yandex.ru> <83a8rrt9ag.fsf@gnu.org> <871tcyexa9.fsf@fimbulvetr.bsc.es> <87612a7my2.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <561DC925.5050001@siege-engine.com> <561E32D2.4060501@yandex.ru> <83wpum3ozk.fsf@gnu.org> <83r3ksi0ag.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1445189362 30248 80.91.229.3 (18 Oct 2015 17:29:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 17:29:22 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 18 19:29:18 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Znrll-0003Sq-Jz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 19:29:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34913 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Znrlk-0001pC-VQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 13:29:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50503) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Znrlh-0001ot-7c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 13:29:14 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Znrld-0008Cd-5R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 13:29:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pa0-x22b.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22b]:35215) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Znrld-0008CX-09 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 13:29:09 -0400 Original-Received: by pasz6 with SMTP id z6so6078065pas.2 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 10:29:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:date:organization:message-id :references:user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version:content-type; bh=Pa6Cbrd6K0yUHRbNG5FbDhBbGUJQFq/CfEWFYO7lYPM=; b=R/m6/92APYwC3nDfPirq2Dx3OMsn9w/T9jvdOU8X0/pr3K5QuDLGAFU/Ul1VzSNep4 Iusjce4gjcfbEXaFLrAU8h7LLIfGWH5nqCsHATYFHc0quj5ryLeivi7rBuCalUoIqkd4 4/jYAcGLMkGF7jN73og8ZfgVZ0n59mqc0kqBjGHlIUDYqUj7HgT+3AWFz3E88xbTlbf4 r6vAVlUIMB0WF2lDm6N/Im2i0q5m5IEn59abto14J8r1eQB4GhXouLOJoqHahaKP8Xdr XveF2bSXwiuqC5qp2vLQrNRHQpXIa8C6pJ6XZfbL7COCRqIa6xK2xcUQYzMRyM9RHNko DFFA== X-Received: by 10.68.242.2 with SMTP id wm2mr29678116pbc.31.1445189348508; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 10:29:08 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-68-79.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.68.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j16sm31875258pbq.23.2015.10.18.10.29.07 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 18 Oct 2015 10:29:07 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 24507F45CE84; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 10:29:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83r3ksi0ag.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 18 Oct 2015 19:55:35 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (darwin) Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22b X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:191981 Archived-At: >>>>> Eli Zaretskii writes: > I wasn't aware that the IDE landscape might have changed in such a > significant way recently. This discussion seems to focus on details, which > seems to indicate no such radical changes happened. But I'm not an expert, > so maybe you are right. > > I did suggest up-thread to come up with a list of main features we think an > Emacs IDE should have. If that is what you have in mind, I obviously agree. That's great, Eli. I don't know if the landscape has really changed or not, only that I'd love to take a step back together and survey the field: if for no other reason than to help us feel we've reached our conclusions on the same footing. Who knows, we may end up where we are now; except that given the current level of disgruntlement, I'd be surprised by that outcome as well. My list of main features from a previous message (and this is just a draft, subject to change) is: indentation (see above) reformatting syntax highlighting (font-lock) help at point documentation lookup (sadly, fewer projects use Info these days) completion refactoring semantic editing (for example, paredit) compilation (M-x compile) live compilation (flymake/flycheck) REPL (comint) running tests debugging (GUD) version control (CV) profiling code coverage app interaction I'll refine this shortly and come back with a better list, and then we can start new threads for each sub-area, and discover what expertise we already have in those areas within the community. BTW- I used to work at Borland on their C++Builder IDE, and I've worked full time on Java J2EE projects using IntelliJ, so that is the basis for some of my opinions about IDEs. > In any case, CEDET is not an EDE, AFAIK. It is an infrastructure and a set > of tools for building an IDE. IOW, it's neither a hammer nor a screwdriver, > but something that allows us to make one or the other (or something else > entirely). So it could very well be a good basis for an Emacs IDE. It could be! I'm pretty sure it will come up in discussions again shortly, with some valuable experiences to add, and perhaps even code. John