From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Option to not automatically customize-save-variable `package-selected-packages' Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2016 16:10:02 -0800 Message-ID: References: <56C43D17.7010009@alice.it> <831t8aufoe.fsf@gnu.org> <8737sp51vx.fsf@gmail.com> <83fuwpubpn.fsf@gnu.org> <87egc9ahav.fsf@fastmail.fm> <834md5u426.fsf@gnu.org> <87vb5l664f.fsf@fastmail.fm> <83mvqxrqql.fsf@gnu.org> <87y4ag3l7s.fsf@gmail.com> <83si0or96s.fsf@gnu.org> <87r3g8366a.fsf@gmail.com> <83fuwor0u5.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8mwqw0y.fsf@gnu.org> <87wppx4nyf.fsf@fastmail.fm> Reply-To: John Wiegley NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1456099848 20600 80.91.229.3 (22 Feb 2016 00:10:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2016 00:10:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org, bruce.connor.am@gmail.com, Kaushal Modi To: Joost Kremers Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 22 01:10:42 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aXe5J-0007i4-IK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2016 01:10:41 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45205 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aXe5I-0003n6-Vd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2016 19:10:40 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60544) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aXe4x-0003my-Vd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2016 19:10:21 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aXe4w-0002BP-Pm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2016 19:10:19 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-io0-x22c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22c]:34925) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aXe4s-0002AP-46; Sun, 21 Feb 2016 19:10:14 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-io0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id g203so161011938iof.2; Sun, 21 Feb 2016 16:10:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:reply-to:mail-followup-to:mime-version:content-type; bh=74RRPRgCPdOWslo9BCy6RiIC14yGX8Qe5leN47KjT64=; b=nSnn/H5CY16F+E2c2LHHJHxuTWtOiqbV4FXpTPmcDp/mCFzYQT7BiuSusGHQfHzD/F GDdahTaEobmGJ7XNdUT8rlF1sskm+xVZRUoHpeeP2xHPgHaLTw3BdCiNe1HFKO43pIJK 7xWDe445bdMRRrPmQ3p0hk/rDXGPcd6Hk/wBNGpHaxKlCN5Hfx8kyuoBl2BF2DRR2kVA vvD5tuXzakJuCq4dso7MVyyZmFaWdwwuf9wMeZ5fKRkylW7NK82IStzhSNO2OjkrlUUV zcnQjupfQfz21ft4MPNfc5BG0Yp287a1BCi+YDNcxDVMIb3ivmVCstTSMlO5c/euDS3O PXjg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :references:user-agent:reply-to:mail-followup-to:mime-version :content-type; bh=74RRPRgCPdOWslo9BCy6RiIC14yGX8Qe5leN47KjT64=; b=cTXkcIK7p0kv4guIdLLhH4np1A3qpDiJoHjgscJqwg9PSCWPvnCyZmqBtSy7UqTet6 mSUSakolkLzfr3J+8bRTMKNdjdvszSorSo9nXxwJpUbWsjIwpyRkeN/AKDjhMlW2bX4Y 7Ll6CMn2Q4DNZtP3SypbdTEH2t03zUapbJZJldKnLVxGqb663j3wjMgSAa4KxeqvhBPn bnp5RcOlzdeV/Nuwr2NS47S8CLgRFbT+cTvNioOGt/ovItnOUNdI8OMxaNVh72HWoDMJ 9uJ5vfhA2bi4Zm3cThEgvJlsofhA6hYVqKpz8DD+XQx65n71TS15Ak9nI7OhNUzVukDY aUCw== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOS2j60wX7/rTrlUoBaYnqCT82LvEMvYrmJz993GeRy1o0qWS3UFzyoftNsm4/XIEA== X-Received: by 10.107.7.37 with SMTP id 37mr26426486ioh.17.1456099812251; Sun, 21 Feb 2016 16:10:12 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Hermes.local (mail.johnwiegley.com. [208.82.103.192]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m32sm10530804ioi.41.2016.02.21.16.10.10 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 21 Feb 2016 16:10:10 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Original-From: John Wiegley Original-Received: by Hermes.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id E3ED44E61939; Sun, 21 Feb 2016 16:10:08 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87wppx4nyf.fsf@fastmail.fm> (Joost Kremers's message of "Mon, 22 Feb 2016 00:56:40 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/24.5 (darwin) Mail-Followup-To: Joost Kremers , Eli Zaretskii , Kaushal Modi , bruce.connor.am@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22c X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:200410 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>>>> Joost Kremers writes: > And what has now been decided (if anything)? Will there be an option to k= eep > package.el from writing `package-selected-packages' to > `custom-set-variables'? And what will happen if I set this option? Do I > *have* to setq `package-selected-packages' or can I also leave it nil? > Should I expect any adverse effects if I do that (other than the fact that > packages won't be installed automatically, of course). Since I use > use-package anyway, I'd prefer it if I could just leave > `package-selected-packages' unset. The customization interface, like code written in a .emacs file, represents manual changes initiated by the user. These should go into a file they keep under version control, as a record of how they have personalized their Emacs environment. Changes beyond that, such as `package-selected-packages', that are not configured by the user directly, but are changed and persisted by code runn= ing in Emacs, should be saved to the user-data-directory in a file specific to that package. The ideal for doing this would be a new persistence API that packages can rely on to do the right thing whenever needed. The general principle is that, if you keep a file under version control, it should change only when you know you've made changes affecting that file. Generated data outside of Customize should not make changes to that file. One might say that selecting packages represents a flavor of customization, and I'd be open to hearing that argument; but enough people have expressed surprise and dislike about this that I feel the data should be persisted in= a location dedicated to that purpose. =2D-=20 John Wiegley GPG fingerprint =3D 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGcBAEBCgAGBQJWylHaAAoJEMFE2PTxn+Ywbr4MAILCS5MU28FAE7uCadieeDGe kQV2FJdiVbU76kLB+qCQ+TsdqVM8TXXSf1Y6134HSMrXCQZJ+mBbU2gOL+FHBJPO bY9CIz3fuE4h/68h2bxVxNlLVCHni0cL+A9ZPryVezO/cbl8Lb3ZGehbcrvJ7zLC 4GIW1FYTSbe1o1wwZ8BhCpB8TjNFbNoH3wIFe2cmWVcaIn+5At2BFnap/cSsd4th TjsfVfoVyUz+5dFFK+RG6HTfbij6jUoRp7w8O3xxIKYVa/0zUA+WXsPmu2WI2yN8 Dh7t8aJbQ4JCjVzbNXp/oUapLjhKUxuLCXNLR4Q2Nhwvhky55GgDJUuZsRsHZvrg yObBf+RdL5qTSX+jKlNIME9MolSI8DNIm3llbHyh25UtE4ozu/+5Iwd5fjtuGb9y HxWNkIQ48XFWzb3B/A6+juXLpk+RUTrleznm09uvPKU/eava8utPlg6hjppgWktV 9qeSK1yLpV8CNWDgydMInT36Dd6ErHucuD8F72e1fw== =IFTN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--