From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Preview: portable dumper Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2016 00:08:55 -0800 Message-ID: References: <047a67ec-9e29-7e4e-0fb0-24c3e59b5886@dancol.org> <83zikjxt1j.fsf@gnu.org> <8360n6ruzu.fsf@gnu.org> <834m2nplmb.fsf@gnu.org> <83inr2oje6.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1480666204 24356 195.159.176.226 (2 Dec 2016 08:10:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 08:10:04 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/25.1.50 (darwin) Cc: Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 02 09:10:00 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cCiuu-0005fx-28 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 02 Dec 2016 09:10:00 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33110 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cCiux-0006pu-Py for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 02 Dec 2016 03:10:03 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46344) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cCiu4-0006oQ-68 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Dec 2016 03:09:10 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cCiu3-0005I2-7k for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Dec 2016 03:09:08 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pg0-x22b.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22b]:35620) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cCitx-0005Gn-Cj; Fri, 02 Dec 2016 03:09:01 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pg0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id p66so105031233pga.2; Fri, 02 Dec 2016 00:09:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version; bh=1l2iu2UVcbST2CyBlA2SC+v+FRJHdzkqC/JEF+M5pUE=; b=rTbJgZma3t5z96oNvAjJvl4UVBjCShDfJ6HYHUbn5k0MEfEKBRiz1zZJp/NeaNx72J VHLc7ED7BUP+dYjJiRlGhN/NkHV/5vkzpvCy77dSIQmebmM9+/vtwmuRRRYigEprcCMM cHz0aAQWA5+bX/xghiVFQttozzzDGv8rUEX5LTMgw0fjXZEHGzrKyxfnzAoeJWTQqubm JJxOSeovZakr2pJE+QR/PPNMS121j3xYn73n4LsvQLA1WCjm8oihgGB9PH7DxPjMKxDu J0VECETn4eGh77rW9bNMXotA6XC03kik95ednJgOWWpLBvyw1O7KM/r54ZFXLMr+k/0J 2SCQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :references:user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version; bh=1l2iu2UVcbST2CyBlA2SC+v+FRJHdzkqC/JEF+M5pUE=; b=Hx9EF00i32eqpCMdYO46F+jDF719Bme06K3SBnJO7y5dZFZZHPbsw4P/JN5HNY9mIB FQpPD9TBbPbHQmJuAuZrqG04ai3H3Hyh1iJF3XWCNOT/ANyvhkBasXYbffQsKj1Tff5a tFWN1ZSeDoCI4qv3tAf2eqsMV7a69SswJH/8nYqrEjWQp9TS8G6i8xAJTaKwU+vPmTaj D/AHFZHRWZq5nMIeFG2jVWTllc4/MyE/uSHnlcqGewAgGLKZNnWaugRxAnNtU7m8F6dX SkExKY2F6eDnF0uMD0xmzm8UgOFG3todtcnxv36deA7AZ2uK3wyVqLxb5HnctNxIjmry vBTg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC01M4kCHDUXMH/vIxzTP5h5oYpNAAkCp0qo93+1DoaQDG97NojCyNPgh3Coyq7u7ww== X-Received: by 10.98.208.70 with SMTP id p67mr44009922pfg.15.1480666139879; Fri, 02 Dec 2016 00:08:59 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-69-149.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.69.149]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y66sm5404154pgb.21.2016.12.02.00.08.58 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 02 Dec 2016 00:08:58 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Original-From: "John Wiegley" Original-Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 91CC5486B15B; Fri, 2 Dec 2016 00:08:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83inr2oje6.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 02 Dec 2016 09:54:57 +0200") Mail-Followup-To: Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22b X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:209908 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>>>> "EZ" =3D=3D Eli Zaretskii writes: EZ> The key issue is performance, as was stated many times. If the performa= nce EZ> of loadup after all the speedups is not good enough, then we will have = to EZ> conclude that this idea cannot fly, at least not yet. (That conclusion EZ> might be revisited later, if/when disks, filesystems, and machines beco= me EZ> faster.) It will also not fly if no one will pick up the gauntlet and w= ork EZ> on that idea to get it to completion. I think Daniel has helped to stimulate us by offering a close-to-working solution to an ancient problem. The code it replaces is worse; while the as-yet-unproven idea of a fast .elc loader is better. It's now upon us to prove that we can beat the portable dumper, by making good on a fast .elc loader. That said, I don't want to let Daniel's idea wither on the vine while we pr= ove or disprove a fast .elc loader. Sure, we can wait a couple of months to give that idea a chance while we review the dumper, but if we don't get an .elc loader in that time, we should give Daniel's idea a go, if for no other rea= son than that the work is almost done, and we could gain some valuable experien= ce =2D- and a way to do some real performance comparisons. If the .elc idea pans out (and I really hope it can), I think even Daniel w= ill be relieved at not having to maintain his dumper, and he can help us to extricate his helpful addition. EZ> Once again, if those ideas seem strange, let alone incorrect, to you-all EZ> out there, just say the word, and I will step down. Then I can stop EZ> worrying about the portable dumper, and you can stop worrying about my EZ> strange ideas. Emacs is not my private project; I'm only entitled to EZ> promote my ideas if the others either support them or trust me to DTRT. EZ> Please decide which one is it, and let's move on. Please do not step down, Eli. Please don't. It sickens my heart every time I hear you suggest it, so just stop doing that for my sake. :) =2D-=20 John Wiegley GPG fingerprint =3D 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGzBAEBCgAdFiEE3lW3afxXihSlvlQwwUTY9PGf5jAFAlhBLBcACgkQwUTY9PGf 5jBQkwwAgYZ4krqg6svwmqc3tOrilse27a27bZ0nLPZq3jQTmm6jmbA6GPNTB1GZ z+CGQVfz/yhlnhSFyf/HhVleGRIb4YqTnX823nT6PS8L6MbT7GmlpsscMXuynhJB xKceKLFwiArFx3xjz1NvGNjAYcxGkyTGFwmpAhcCvmZKwSMk/p+4w9J8qe2O6s23 WCfRG84nMRAP+gF9zpgH6yGc7kmRbG54UBuhgypE3c+3bHtLEBW7Yc9jeDlmw093 iFEK0uABS3AC+G8MM7Se65B1/5YpMOSB0j4ms9KCkbDzB+SlfmKYuAJQgZNVsCuM hpqkNEshgmU8Z4ESN/lkCgIj4TLpQUIOwCLTQ9L2SIoPrWKV1Zt2y/fBeJmTh5Hy tJ0/vRx6TZOFrcrojLNtgvsC/fF2MV1lT//AowNw4kZm5InXR6R+tQVfjkA5fpoB IjXKT2oIawUICmuDaOIXfHUXieh8gWveEaVP2WHCsx56eCcQkElUJRnScnpZjfzV Tke0J8FN =pN3/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--