From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: How to make Emacs popular again. Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2020 17:00:29 +0200 Message-ID: <m2y2kg69v6.fsf@gmail.com> References: <CANQHGB1052fKdSq0=F-PG8hLMC3WX-R3UaMmrHrntG8J3J2pVw@mail.gmail.com> <20200926163008.GS1349@protected.rcdrun.com> <s6jzh5bceim.fsf@emailmessageidheader.nil> <alpine.NEB.2.22.394.2010070904200453.21988@sdf.lonestar.org> <CALDnm50iSGedcCrHdTKgA9TRs1Zow83n4jxy31h3iv45uSfz6g@mail.gmail.com> <E1kQNlW-0005wE-0p@fencepost.gnu.org> <alpine.NEB.2.22.394.2010081607490453.9426@sdf.lonestar.org> <m2362o7puh.fsf@gmail.com> <alpine.NEB.2.22.394.2010081645300453.12654@sdf.lonestar.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9867"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: bobnewell@bobnewell.net, =?utf-8?B?Sm8=?= =?utf-8?B?w6NvIFTDoXZvcmE=?= <joaotavora@gmail.com>, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Gregory Heytings <ghe@sdf.org> Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 08 17:02:16 2020 Return-path: <emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org> Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org>) id 1kQXQt-0002S8-5i for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 17:02:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39618 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org>) id 1kQXQs-00040F-3Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 11:02:14 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45792) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rpluim@gmail.com>) id 1kQXPI-00033V-DO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 11:00:36 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm1-x329.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::329]:36654) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rpluim@gmail.com>) id 1kQXPF-0002Gr-Pv; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 11:00:36 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wm1-x329.google.com with SMTP id e2so6857049wme.1; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 08:00:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version; bh=irzVb1Vy/Ax0ZYAweZ5+1tUK6bgC64VC5IfZzgi0pGw=; b=JHxuoHtgxsB8MElNW4vHx30+GUqPZn2xWY3hklfO6A795MWpzoLfJ+hbTHX2KYf8sN j1Y5MxS/xNxVkhVwiIJq7NyCT2mwkx8NPdzwGHzrrfCmvmLwtTN4dZNH0eOtfFDGZVki FjZZLWz4DBKQuw21U/7ji456E8CbHN+26XCJ8AvLlZ67njoVWi3dCbRBjWwB21AgcVEL nu7eJFxpafzTqmkoW0x4MCWbocpML+PqdErGX+Lx12kPu/uMjSdii5Id06qpeoydMRIA 223OC1XNuUgjbPiuj5AEuum7NgaXkvDvtiakki8tNUQgBYjOtES6vPGvXdeVDTHoMiDh bQ3w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version; bh=irzVb1Vy/Ax0ZYAweZ5+1tUK6bgC64VC5IfZzgi0pGw=; b=Ck96viJwgWGBnchKuALa0Xnd4dROQJehARLlbUuaHWjiVLAWn9JsqN2zP/1ay4M/WE Y25Pd5yHTDr/7V16ZpLOFXMkccB7KnK5XQFSJISKpPOYUMQBOdPQaCK5HDpAVLwXxyT9 rHpIuGDky9tY8MAUL4iLlL4M4xk91mBC8Nv9OeGg3hjvfGWHb4zOi3yFzsBaTYfPm7yT XaqxGUMqgAseCfa1KNF/ub/VMJMULMRNeqITTwgVEwovF1mkPfAG5jSHid+mafm7JgsY aerbQ6lPCcOV2rlXtewpWmojB1/Gjb1MxtxRoWlUHI9KgqmZvBvDDdfptQEjXpH1MUA0 jdig== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530vSxCLsUr3yEdF/qQas4hPXpSmYRzfBjUXwWmkBSYyNThThuIO 9cVNu800QBtrhHINXmVsPes= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwck3tNU6bjxDpzBnSer4gkej9mDT4cJapYjCGXuMnfDQhCJzEIX10rVIBIK0IE8dFWKHgodw== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:7c12:: with SMTP id x18mr9528991wmc.107.1602169231623; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 08:00:31 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from rpluim-mac ([2a01:e34:ecfc:a860:683b:48ba:13fe:a576]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v83sm6967178wmb.22.2020.10.08.08.00.30 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 08 Oct 2020 08:00:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <alpine.NEB.2.22.394.2010081645300453.12654@sdf.lonestar.org> (Gregory Heytings's message of "Thu, 08 Oct 2020 14:54:09 +0000") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::329; envelope-from=rpluim@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x329.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." <emacs-devel.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/options/emacs-devel>, <mailto:emacs-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel> List-Post: <mailto:emacs-devel@gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:emacs-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel>, <mailto:emacs-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" <emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org> Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257211 Archived-At: <http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/257211> >>>>> On Thu, 08 Oct 2020 14:54:09 +0000, Gregory Heytings <ghe@sdf.org> said: Gregory> Well, that doesn't quite do what I suggest. It only finds the symbol Gregory> in the Emacs manual (AFAICS it does not search in the Elisp manual), Gregory> and what you find when you do this on a command is something that much Gregory> resembles what you find in the docstring, so it doesn't look like Gregory> useful information, it looks redundant. As I said, I think entering Gregory> the chapter would be much more useful, as it would give the user the Gregory> feeling that there is more information there. It puts you in info, where it is obvious there is more information: at the top of the buffer it says: Up: Deletion and Killing so finding out more is easy. Robert --