From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Random832 Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: OS X: Change default key bindings of CMD and ALT Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2016 22:00:16 -0500 Message-ID: References: <86r3i39gm8.fsf@gmail.com> <4EE5D522-7CDE-4430-AC67-133DD628F843@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1451703660 2761 80.91.229.3 (2 Jan 2016 03:01:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2016 03:01:00 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 02 04:00:46 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aFCQw-00068m-3W for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 04:00:46 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37348 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFCQs-0007H7-FH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 22:00:42 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34333) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFCQo-0007Gp-Cb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 22:00:39 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFCQk-0001DA-AM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 22:00:38 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:46154) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFCQk-0001CD-3D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 22:00:34 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aFCQg-0005uv-1n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 04:00:30 +0100 Original-Received: from c-68-39-93-111.hsd1.in.comcast.net ([68.39.93.111]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 04:00:30 +0100 Original-Received: from random832 by c-68-39-93-111.hsd1.in.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 04:00:30 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 38 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-68-39-93-111.hsd1.in.comcast.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (darwin) Cancel-Lock: sha1:uJONL8JWc4jyrLCUiPNwGB9CZKA= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:197329 Archived-At: Anders Lindgren writes: > The main problem with the default layout is that on European > keyboards, you can't type normal characters like "|" and "{" as they > require the OS X "compose" key. This functionality is not called "compose", and it's confusing to refer to it as such. "compose" is an X11 feature where you can type something like "compose, a, a" for å. > I've read a number of bug reports, questions, and comments regarding > this. The motivation behind the proposed change is for Emacs to > provide a decent default behaviour so that it doesn't scare away first > time users. (Power user can easily reconfigure the keys using the > `ns-xxx-modifier' variables.) The whole point of having command mapped to super is to allow for key bindings that first time users expect. I think your proposal would scare away more first time users than the current behavior. > Of course, one can consider other layouts as well, including mapping > the left and right keys differently (e.g. right ALT is compose and > left ALT is meta). However 1) not all keyboards have all modifier keys > and 2) many users want the modifier keys on either side of the > keyboard to perform the same action. (Again, a power used can easily > configure their keyboard to work this way.) On Windows and Linux only the right-hand Alt key (called "AltGr") performs this function in the first place, so I'm not convinced that it would be as surprising as you think it is. Are there any common keyboards (let's start with if there are any sold by Apple - I think people who use third-party PC USB keyboards, particularly that are not full 104/105-key keyboards, can be considered "power users") that lack left and right option/alt keys? >From what I can find, even their "compact" keyboards, i.e. laptop keyboards and the Magic Keyboard, have command and alt/option on both sides, though they lack a right-hand control key).