From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: "John Wiegley" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: lexical-binding is turned on in more use cases Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2020 13:10:25 -0700 Message-ID: References: <83pndo9zeb.fsf@gnu.org> <83o8t6bx2p.fsf@gnu.org> <83k13ubv3g.fsf@gnu.org> <83imjebsrh.fsf@gnu.org> <20200308193048.GB4832@ACM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="71063"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (darwin) Cc: Alan Mackenzie , Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 09 21:11:13 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jBOk4-000IOS-W9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 09 Mar 2020 21:11:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49168 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jBOk3-0003eb-UW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 09 Mar 2020 16:11:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58401) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jBOjZ-0003F9-UL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Mar 2020 16:10:43 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49780) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jBOjZ-0005Dc-64; Mon, 09 Mar 2020 16:10:41 -0400 Original-Received: from auth1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.227]:47753) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA256:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jBOjY-0002VR-EM; Mon, 09 Mar 2020 16:10:40 -0400 Original-Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailauth.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 177BC221B2; Mon, 9 Mar 2020 16:10:40 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 09 Mar 2020 16:10:40 -0400 X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedugedruddukedgudefgecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpefhvffujgffkfhffgggtgesthdtredttdertdenucfhrhhomhepfdflohhh nhcuhghivghglhgvhidfuceojhhohhhnfiesghhnuhdrohhrgheqnecuffhomhgrihhnpe hnvgifrghrthhishgrnhhsrdgtohhmnecukfhppeejiedrvdefgedrieelrddugeelnecu vehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepjhhohhhnfi domhgvshhmthhprghuthhhphgvrhhsohhnrghlihhthidqieekjeektdelgeegqddujeej heefkeduiedqjhhohhhnfieppehgnhhurdhorhhgsehnvgifrghrthhishgrnhhsrdgtoh hm X-ME-Proxy: Original-Received: from localhost (76-234-69-149.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net [76.234.69.149]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 0C1CC3280064; Mon, 9 Mar 2020 16:10:38 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sun, 08 Mar 2020 19:41:44 -0400") Mail-Followup-To: Stefan Monnier , Alan Mackenzie , Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:245409 Archived-At: >>>>> "SM" == Stefan Monnier writes: >> THIS IS A MAJOR BACKWARD STEP FOR EMACS!!!! SM> ;-) >> Looking at the git log, it appears this change was made nearly a year ago. SM> Indeed, it's a wonder you managed to survive with such a majorly broken SM> Emacs for so long ;-) I do hope we're taking Alan's concern seriously here, all joking aside. This change pretty harshly violates the "principle of least surprise", and working with lexical-scope still isn't the norm for most old school Emacs Lispers. I'm not sure I wuold have ever discovered the solution to such a problem in my own debugging, had I not chanced on this discussion thread. What are we gaining, again, at the cost of this potential confusion? -- John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2