From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: use-package.el -> Emacs core Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 07:17:36 -0800 Message-ID: References: <564136F7.2020404@yandex.ru> <877flqe1a4.fsf@gmail.com> <87twoucaxz.fsf@gmail.com> <877flqc9jh.fsf@gmail.com> <87twout0iu.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1447169755 1547 80.91.229.3 (10 Nov 2015 15:35:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 15:35:55 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Juanma Barranquero , David Kastrup , Dmitry Gutov , Oleh Krehel , Emacs developers To: joaotavora@gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?=) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 10 16:35:51 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZwAxY-0005Xw-R0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 10 Nov 2015 16:35:48 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:32978 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZwAxY-0007eP-Ef for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 10 Nov 2015 10:35:48 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:48767) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZwAg6-0001Mo-9S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Nov 2015 10:17:47 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZwAg5-0005mF-DJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Nov 2015 10:17:46 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pa0-x236.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c03::236]:36464) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZwAg1-0005lO-Tg; Tue, 10 Nov 2015 10:17:42 -0500 Original-Received: by pacdm15 with SMTP id dm15so212787399pac.3; Tue, 10 Nov 2015 07:17:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Q7wJkOq03Y7r/hgM/lIP0EqoZZpI7kt6b5JBDfGJg8E=; b=nZQPH4i0UzuL0XWgMkj/b8BZCBMczgGH+5w5iRv6hezg6hqYK1r4KzmXdHG4ORBVcC vDHsZx+TAPZtNeCJAaWW+53CvKkIG2MqMGz7s5w1pVmq58RShDSlhjtWAZZxFLLu1xZr 8hdoHOaZLKprcDp6PxWUae59Ab6Y9fQKxqmihEoiZZUusiXA945lHZX+TnyoRz60127t /Ar5epH7UeglxUVPevHPJYW97yznd91bfTbvAFtxXkH3BtsFBn8pyAwMZ9QPYwWhiMGj m4+wnsCy806KhiXRrVm9+kHzdlU1+RhHPCBiIH1++fOiNR6H4oZtenLbKqoxYWHv4cdo H9Lg== X-Received: by 10.69.2.164 with SMTP id bp4mr6354412pbd.119.1447168661174; Tue, 10 Nov 2015 07:17:41 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Vulcan.attlocal.net (76-234-68-79.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.68.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id rv8sm4653508pbc.84.2015.11.10.07.17.39 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 10 Nov 2015 07:17:40 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Original-From: "John Wiegley" Original-Received: by Vulcan.attlocal.net (Postfix, from userid 501) id 4061B1050EBA5; Tue, 10 Nov 2015 07:17:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: (=?utf-8?Q?=22=5C=22Jo=C3=A3o_T?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=A1vora=5C=22's=22?= message of "Tue, 10 Nov 2015 14:22:41 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (darwin) Mail-Followup-To: joaotavora@gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?=), David Kastrup , Juanma Barranquero , Emacs developers , Oleh Krehel , Dmitry Gutov X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c03::236 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:193863 Archived-At: >>>>> Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora writes: > I don't think anyone is arguing against the usefulness of macros in gener= al, > only skeptic macros that introduce a totally new mini-language for a lot > independent functionality, most of it already user-visible and documented= in > the user manual. Such is the case of `use-package' use-package is not aimed at replacing the Lisp skills of the members of this list; it is also for those whose only exposure to add-hook is an opaque thi= ng they copied from a web page. They will never read up on what it does, and forcing them to see it does not encourage them to become programmers. (use-package python-mode :load-path "site-lisp/python-mode" :mode "\\.py$= ") This is also something they'll just copy and paste, maybe not even knowing what a mode is. Compare with: (add-to-list 'load-path (expand-file-name "site-lisp/python-mode" user-emacs-directory)) (autoload 'python-mode "python-mode" nil t) (add-to-list 'auto-mode-alist '("\\.py$" . python-mode)) "Only a mother could love that". To an Emacs Lisp expert, the latter does h= ave some beauty, owing to its directness, and clarity with regard to fundamental operations. Somehow, though, I prefer the former. John