From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: joaotavora@gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?=) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Metaproblem, part 3 Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2014 07:07:21 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20141203142859.24393.98673@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <20141203193110.GF12748@thyrsus.com> <20141203215426.GA15791@thyrsus.com> <87ppbzplcw.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <83iohr48kr.fsf@gnu.org> <83388u4bps.fsf@gnu.org> <83y4qm2uz9.fsf@gnu.org> <83vblq2los.fsf@gnu.org> <87vblpjq24.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417849693 14445 80.91.229.3 (6 Dec 2014 07:08:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 07:08:13 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, Eli Zaretskii , phillip.lord@newcastle.ac.uk, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 06 08:08:06 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx9TJ-0006w2-T6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 08:08:06 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53565 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx9TJ-0002FN-Cd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 02:08:05 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56386) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx9Sw-00026U-Je for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 02:07:48 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx9Sq-0000gY-U4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 02:07:42 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wi0-x236.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c05::236]:35417) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx9Sq-0000fq-KH; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 02:07:36 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-wi0-f182.google.com with SMTP id h11so614004wiw.15 for ; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 23:07:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date :message-id:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=i4v0lmYjnpixHvQJymY9lbDfYVWnvDpk/5NC+AOS9pg=; b=jAhPZHFQjn2ecsQx35ZBfUQ+ggyOzywqer44Tvf3UukRi/7g5/0MTLwFXo2wn99DYd PFjKSwwgzvecOSxxkm8ZeMQ8HDvoA+uD1E+18NM81fkzeqGMtJISO47lHVyZ0hpWG0eV 9DV09Neq64wpQab3XlmumyjIXIGBtyL1cOaUs3P9a8+a3BYQOy3BdEKc0ENU21GyC6iT LL9xi5rNQyujjJNcWoPKuSO6nGA4+ZyhKW0UkDeN8OQknBwXrHJ+ui1zqB2bmg2rl2K4 Jrbay9K/G3m4G25//gqOu9r4sn3X1f5nsVvAF87cjGWkO2SLRX3Yhj2yk0TakS1d8AX6 BWmg== X-Received: by 10.194.85.83 with SMTP id f19mr30874437wjz.20.1417849655120; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 23:07:35 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from king.lan.yourcompany.com (31.57.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt. [188.37.57.31]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id cq4sm47644797wjc.35.2014.12.05.23.07.33 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 05 Dec 2014 23:07:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87vblpjq24.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (Stephen J. Turnbull's message of "Sat, 06 Dec 2014 14:38:27 +0900") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.92 (darwin) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c05::236 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179098 Archived-At: "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: > > We can certainly try that, and see if it helps. > > You could try it, but in my experience with communities that have > evident mentoring efforts suggests that "tangential matters or topics > too advanced" are not that big a problem. Newcomers generally detect > and ignore 2/3 or more of those posts. If newcomers get confused by > those, they should go off-list. If mentors detect that a newcomer is > getting confused, *they* should go off-list. Yes, going off-list is useful. the [mentoring] tag is useful when the effort decides to stay on-list, for some reason. IMO the benefit of going off-list isn't avoiding distraction anyway, it's that intimacy promotes confidence.=20 The remaining things I said apply for both on-list and off-list dialog anyway. It's those that I am unsure about, so wonder if you'd like to comment. > The bigger problem is the level of list traffic itself, which is > intimidating to newcomers, who often don't even want to subscribe. If > there are people who have demonstrated interest in mentoring, a > separate list is a good idea. That should work too, but perhaps at a later phase. Right now, the following can be done with relatively low overhead: * Announce the mentoring idea to this list and/or to the contribution guide (advise newcomers to ask for a mentor on this list before posting code or starting a discussion). * Detail mentor's role with some do's and don'ts. Detail non-mentor's role. =20=20 * Mentoring should be strictly on list and use [mentoring] tags? Off-list? Up to them? To test the process, I can volunteer to submit a couple of reasonably small ideas, between 100 and 300 LOC, that need a mentor (*). I have contributed to emacs before, but got lost in the git transition and recent discussion so I have a lot of doubts, from how to clone the official repo, ELPA/Emacs decision, etc. The process should obviously be Stefanless, i.e. someone should volunteer to mentor, otherwise there will be two orphan "[mentor-request]" emails in the list, which will also say something of the usefulness of the idea :-) Jo=C3=A3o * I also have a bigger idea on yasnippet that is being mentored by Stefan off-list, but that's too complex for an experiment right now.