From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Engster Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: guile and emacs and elisp, oh my! Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 13:58:59 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87tyr587a2.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1271852224 8887 80.91.229.12 (21 Apr 2010 12:17:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 12:17:04 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 21 14:17:02 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O4YrQ-00053g-Uc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2010 14:16:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37991 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1O4YrQ-0003PI-CX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2010 08:16:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1O4YaK-0005dO-JQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2010 07:59:16 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=40013 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1O4YaE-0005Xf-Ej for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2010 07:59:15 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O4YaC-0000se-Fh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2010 07:59:10 -0400 Original-Received: from m61s02.vlinux.de ([83.151.21.164]:33333) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O4YaC-0000sK-7N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2010 07:59:08 -0400 Original-Received: from imac-c2.pc.gwdg.de ([134.76.4.139]) by m61s02.vlinux.de with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O4Ya9-0001ML-Ud for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2010 13:59:06 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87tyr587a2.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> (David Kastrup's message of "Wed, 21 Apr 2010 11:49:25 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/23.1.94 (darwin) Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:123979 Archived-At: David Kastrup writes: > David Engster writes: > >> Tom Tromey writes: >>> I think it is beneficial to a program like Emacs to have a single >>> extension language. A single language makes both reuse and debugging >>> simpler. Multiple languages equals chaos. >> >> I tend to agree. The priority should be to make Emacs Lisp more >> powerful, for example by adding stuff from the CL library to the >> language core. > > The cl library is an incredibly complex hack. It makes debugging and > figuring out things quite harder. > > It makes more sense to switch to a system which deals with such > complexity in more straightforward ways. > > So I tend to see your wish of "make Emacs Lisp more powerful instead" as > more expensive and painful in the long run. With "stuff from the CL library" I'm not talking about features like 'lexical-let' or even the whole thing. What I'd really like to see, at least in the short term, are things like 'remove-if', 'delete-if', 'every', 'notany', 'count', 'loop', etc. . I know that the implementation of those often uses CL keywords, which is why Richard didn't want them in Emacs Lisp, at least not in the current form. -David