From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Preview: portable dumper Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 12:20:41 -0800 Message-ID: References: <047a67ec-9e29-7e4e-0fb0-24c3e59b5886@dancol.org> <83zikjxt1j.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1480364490 23017 195.159.176.226 (28 Nov 2016 20:21:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 20:21:30 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/25.1.50 (darwin) Cc: Daniel Colascione , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 28 21:21:21 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cBSQT-0004EW-1Q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 21:21:21 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:32881 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cBSQW-0008Js-HW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 15:21:24 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41756) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cBSPy-0008Jn-HP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 15:20:51 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cBSPx-00031B-H9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 15:20:50 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pg0-x243.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c05::243]:36755) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cBSPt-00030U-Lq; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 15:20:45 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pg0-x243.google.com with SMTP id x23so14019210pgx.3; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 12:20:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version; bh=5Dw7Ht9Kd/YRJ5y+PRswzqRbtBt5gGd4rDh07WHl3eM=; b=y9N/9Awi39TDdrTBYev1mK1XQql88GsFOeq09KF3AhpcF7QeSE4gfnHVPjkM5+9EsG Luy3hLnNc/wYG18OgW3CPYVByw0tbmFxioEnweKrPS6iFIBL8/OMYWMGxUp5wb6EA5ma Gr0DLPQqx9a3MftPIHRg6LGFcmVQCnXh2nCRlaWtu+pMulOPs55Stme/S28M/+mZxITO /3vcSH3oZ/YfYg9fEuRxLQ29sFJa1mu3dvpFDIyQ6fcTgDbgUBIgQC+kX5/B7KUK/Q5V P0F12KEH3mutbG9lMYnZGPo+MOvvEuJQxdzf4LhoO2L6b2QfTCSGsxCcPpegoQxpN5pU /mAg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :references:user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version; bh=5Dw7Ht9Kd/YRJ5y+PRswzqRbtBt5gGd4rDh07WHl3eM=; b=l8cD06jO84r7NOd0jKqS0keTUphckpSv25VBUHgCM7OcbLVcHnBj3SMWhzRv60CQ2+ YEl0mxP7w74Y5L48uTPiDSP/vvPMNChkQUXk2VVamr8YHjohTA8huCBZYzVr1c0Qp4dj 9JfJ1V9AtPO7+KOVziQM3mfRwIyzZXHyyY0lQ3R7Y5HkKof+93Kn/2laLimUJy93HuxG Ulyp7GaC9nORbKAVNtm6FZ+VAY7Rm9CNqbhd8Xyus9dVT9KTdYhG2OZGRHkpXxNGLGXt RltC5+vpxB7XduYlAiF86uKosGPg4xXtTBYt+hQcEdwhoDxPMoHqNcnav4DAtVks9z7e 7oKA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC02OnJ2hl61GqqN2x5TMvBZ257HJyAvjxlHP+dLjQE//JzoyhDjpyP5F1vlwBFtTxw== X-Received: by 10.98.18.6 with SMTP id a6mr24036132pfj.184.1480364443970; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 12:20:43 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-69-149.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.69.149]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c128sm89270355pfc.39.2016.11.28.12.20.43 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 28 Nov 2016 12:20:43 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Original-From: "John Wiegley" Original-Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 8376D457233C; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 12:20:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83zikjxt1j.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 28 Nov 2016 22:12:40 +0200") Mail-Followup-To: Eli Zaretskii , Daniel Colascione , emacs-devel@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c05::243 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:209687 Archived-At: >>>>> "EZ" == Eli Zaretskii writes: EZ> Thanks for your efforts, but I think this is a wrong direction, that will EZ> eventually get us into the same problem we have with unexec: the need to EZ> know and depend on intimate details of relocations, memory allocation, EZ> etc. On top of that, adding Lisp objects will now require writing its EZ> dumper back-end, so this will be a constant maintenance burden of the kind EZ> that only a few of us can bear. Is there a way to get away from such a requirement, Eli? If unexec becomes untenable in the future, is there an alternative that doesn't place the burden upon us to encode the right amount of information in the dumped file? If I understand Daniel's contribution, he's proposing the equivalent of a program loader for Emacs Lisp byte-code, stored within what amounts to a custom object file format. -- John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2