From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Gerd_M=C3=B6llmann?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2023 08:22:27 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87il6bt4z0.fsf@yahoo.com> <8734xetjkk.fsf@yahoo.com> <87cywhsrcf.fsf@yahoo.com> <87cywgx1z0.fsf@web.de> <83wmuowwp3.fsf@gnu.org> <8334xcwank.fsf@gnu.org> <83ttpsuiv4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r0kwf1v7.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83jzqnv53x.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37731"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Emanuel Berg , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 12 08:23:11 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r24oJ-0009bt-4P for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2023 08:23:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r24nj-0005mP-Vz; Sun, 12 Nov 2023 02:22:36 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r24ni-0005mH-Dn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2023 02:22:34 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ed1-x535.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::535]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r24ne-0004yd-R0; Sun, 12 Nov 2023 02:22:32 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-x535.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5435336ab0bso5420320a12.1; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 23:22:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1699773748; x=1700378548; darn=gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=dVnp+FRWrn5tYVQZzkDjxoVq1BVH7RJzLhBKZ3jygQg=; b=nQp3EoA9wXRNMKVG9rQYFErZ5vVazhhVOG8/J5wXmXtXNdRXEzoijlOjBEZ0WZBgEt FfpxXY45V73V47Zp43NfSs98qd7VJOe2FtWra/5f6QUcMKcAf3s8483QJb7sv5ZqKPFt r54FhwjU+4rdDeE0YKLJ47ZSFk2/te3UUt+zxm7jSuXZ662ETgIwJW+fwgNIPSjdSGyb cH6jgxRmpoTxcq7fGrhm9Qi5pQwxXJ6QH67ud9X8L0NQVWF92f1PojUjPMmOxiGJyYwm CgZnBaFjuFbPzfr0h3eikhophybHRc70vmKHTFrz08ytDc8idn5hMRtZomxYuWnKFdC1 gsMw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1699773748; x=1700378548; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=dVnp+FRWrn5tYVQZzkDjxoVq1BVH7RJzLhBKZ3jygQg=; b=ZIhfCEhZz9MNlwc/98kSpTh5lQngAmq7q1cyQSF4D+nqMMajirO7E4KYfnuENk6yw7 KVXoEb6ZQ5zFaQcO2tMv93CSg5sBPHlpMyJ3dyiDf+61XljQ2Pl8tegrHGRvbgonXGJF Wj8fJuY71T28CZ8e8nShloL9IHkO9KtZOlxphpTdH4c+Z81BlYIulYwOQ6SVBEtKoqF2 1CFi6YZazf72ruTAG1EJbTVgGL2OirfnjrGyDWcq54Pwj+IzJBW+u6pulc/CXfUCU1ZR aiBBwUrB6UbFJ1jAXz0czOdlFbA7zEkLcnSw2yy8e6znXbtHGrsH2mMDYMjcldl9CE4F v2gQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxotZunBQ3hUygwPr00TwYrtSE9e4ksiaBgNGF4PUlpbm+FfW66 K+OngmnuxQ55ah9wyaR6LzYoQP442Bs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGn4xG5PlaaUh+Pf7lciPRrC7wmdGmq+QCxyKGN3eTihW8uCT+OEhpK9blOypT8hMItYYIeGQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:5297:b0:9e2:af56:c375 with SMTP id c23-20020a170906529700b009e2af56c375mr2438407ejm.52.1699773748213; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 23:22:28 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Pro.fritz.box (pd9e361d2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [217.227.97.210]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id fi5-20020a170906da0500b009e5db336137sm2149680ejb.196.2023.11.11.23.22.27 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 11 Nov 2023 23:22:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83jzqnv53x.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 12 Nov 2023 08:49:06 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::535; envelope-from=gerd.moellmann@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x535.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312643 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> I must admit, both points are vague to me. We understand that >> the increase in complexity of Elisp because of the use of >> cl-lib is unrelated to when cl-lib is loaded. > > You don't have to understand it. The maintainers do, but you don't. > If needed, we will point out the implications if they are relevant to > the changes you submit to Emacs. That is so arrogant, that I can't believe you wrote it.