From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: IDE Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 22:23:30 -0700 Organization: New Artisans LLC Message-ID: References: <83bncf3f9k.fsf@gnu.org> <5610E0BC.8090902@online.de> <83si5r106e.fsf@gnu.org> <831td9z18h.fsf@gnu.org> <5612E996.7090700@yandex.ru> <83bnc7tavr.fsf@gnu.org> <5618C92A.3040207@yandex.ru> <83a8rrt9ag.fsf@gnu.org> <871tcyexa9.fsf@fimbulvetr.bsc.es> <87612a7my2.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <561DC925.5050001@siege-engine.com> <561E32D2.4060501@yandex.ru> <83wpum3ozk.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1445146263 5309 80.91.229.3 (18 Oct 2015 05:31:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 05:31:03 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 18 07:31:03 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZngYe-0001Ci-TZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 07:31:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60718 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZngYd-0006Bx-SD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 01:30:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35864) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZngYZ-0006AA-N6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 01:30:56 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZngYW-0005zv-H6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 01:30:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pa0-x232.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c03::232]:34170) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZngYW-0005zp-BH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 01:30:52 -0400 Original-Received: by pacfa8 with SMTP id fa8so5900927pac.1 for ; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 22:30:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:date:organization:message-id :references:user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version:content-type; bh=Nm0KC701oYnk7wlu7e1/wC/7AXyYn6W8c9BD3R654xU=; b=On2aBMMk04IZhi9e+75ayAMFbt8jQkFmbym0xJTn8JStY5svzGSsLnlnSEdThCMUyP uL2ZaDph3ZfIbzGLhc+ekxOl6WS8QjmP8CAHooThFxsKkuxnYQyXK2C7sZ88Lj+RuzY5 bMuHYw6CKDFhTYIwVrc2ezZk8hsyoo3xLji9HAGAVdCHLMhjLMBSbpAXyxStGtOmEfxU XG1xM/HJAbdYq6Sq/bIuHjMTQuDfbWtS891FRIF5i3WHuIOyYJt6cfEoT7mAXbjLzjOq ue9zKIFxkaeJR6V3HB6P0KFvL7BWFhh7cVUd/BVm7CG2b/QF79+0ZbsTXpJdXvdiZ8I0 zB1A== X-Received: by 10.66.119.135 with SMTP id ku7mr26270128pab.21.1445146251458; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 22:30:51 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-68-79.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.68.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w9sm29369614pbt.29.2015.10.17.22.30.49 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 17 Oct 2015 22:30:49 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id DC103F45A909; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 22:30:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83wpum3ozk.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 17 Oct 2015 10:58:55 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (darwin) Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c03::232 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:191910 Archived-At: >>>>> Eli Zaretskii writes: > I'm quite sure CEDET has collected and expressed in code a lot of experience > and solutions to many problems that arise in the context of building an IDE. > It's OK to discard that, if we sure that's the proverbial 1st variant > everyone throws away, but we need first to be sure we know what we are > discarding. I'm not suggesting we discard experiences. What I'm saying is: it doesn't make sense to proceed by looking at CEDET, and then asking what should be changed. CEDET is like a hammer. When it was made, the problem looked like nail. Today, the problem might be a screw (is it? do we know?). We're not going to arrive at the best answer by asking ourselves how a hammer can be changed to meet the needs of a screw. It deserves looking at the problem anew. It doesn't mean we throw out the hammer. Maybe we do have a nail, maybe we don't. The point is: If we make technical assumptions before learning what we want to end up with, we're going to arrive at something shaped more by those assumptions than by our needs. So unless there are other features I should bear in mind, I'm going to turn my attention away from CEDET now and back to the IDE vision I'd like everyone's help with, once there is more to say. John