From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Change Tramp syntax Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2017 14:08:35 -0700 Message-ID: References: <20170309184457.29604.13048@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20170309184458.08C9725FCF@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <87k27xfo3q.fsf@detlef> <87efy5fmml.fsf@detlef> <87mvcti5he.fsf_-_@detlef> <83shmldumk.fsf@gnu.org> <87fuhppgt0.fsf@detlef> <87o9wc83kh.fsf@detlef> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1491340166 13584 195.159.176.226 (4 Apr 2017 21:09:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2017 21:09:26 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.130016 (Ma Gnus v0.16) Emacs/25.2 (darwin) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Michael Albinus Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 04 23:09:22 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cvVhY-0002aX-3X for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2017 23:09:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37626 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cvVha-0001lg-Qo for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2017 17:09:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52633) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cvVgz-0001lX-V4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2017 17:08:47 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cvVgv-0004E7-V1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2017 17:08:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg0-x233.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c05::233]:35770) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cvVgv-0004Dz-PL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2017 17:08:41 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg0-x233.google.com with SMTP id 81so163870302pgh.2 for ; Tue, 04 Apr 2017 14:08:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version; bh=RengkifYS5DyxPgrA5Lxsynf//1nWMfIvSJ6hGNBdwY=; b=A78a+JCUMqoUZwky6EI60rdBycTwHSZYDKF1l0iuR2g9ZejWPr0V+Y2ea3aIroqEls 3GT+S2+fqqiVIyckse1beS2HMCJuIXzrn6SfoVvOjgzEf18xuFIxZEHtlwx6x4oOoWlI Pl2YOHuP95aX9OcRvnoyTp2dZPF3dmgH2Ol7Y0fp3GNFK1S/RCCYxzgh/uTPbNJnEah5 9xDywPo0dIzkxOAz8ipWIx4f8khWoiL27M7PnLnkZMHWFfDD0ubYqAaF3lNeJlBnUfDV H5lV6Pc2bMtcXdzioGnTSLNjNwS62lQYeyuKtELqyddkEdNVkDpQMbw8+fDNtslW1qap UdDg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :references:user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version; bh=RengkifYS5DyxPgrA5Lxsynf//1nWMfIvSJ6hGNBdwY=; b=S0pNhSe7X0T3FgMVIXYA+80MApSAKv9bN0MUkEGtA7sFVh3pAV8tL7NGRPwi/3ATt2 wBfQiUmKTQsjjXNpYy0nttGsuvBhsGhq/mUAUcI2JFGso3038LymEVAORLF8G0CxFsom TDD11uOrUMs2XgREKbHcre7CYewxpQayOQ0lgSc7tGNq1KMsQJz3ABLEhuKNkMzSpdHs ZivohxYp5LJSV6ufeBnj/Z+iSqwNC073v2TQTEYiPzGZ0JMPPg5BcBN9kVHxf829N08b 79pho6oYdng+pedi5U6xE6JhNEKS4Vg6ZRdgdsswbX6c1IrhoO1WVvSrIV8aMl5nEo+o 6e/g== X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H1MN83rJwSDB+BWaGrmlenObrrwMo9HzonYKi2tyJMZKIpq9amr3cYVnq4Daexptw== X-Received: by 10.99.111.138 with SMTP id k132mr26790949pgc.138.1491340120894; Tue, 04 Apr 2017 14:08:40 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-69-149.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.69.149]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e5sm33417136pga.13.2017.04.04.14.08.39 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 04 Apr 2017 14:08:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Original-From: "John Wiegley" Original-Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 41DA83692C78; Tue, 4 Apr 2017 14:08:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87o9wc83kh.fsf@detlef> (Michael Albinus's message of "Tue, 04 Apr 2017 19:50:38 +0200") Mail-Followup-To: Michael Albinus , emacs-devel@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c05::233 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:213657 Archived-At: >>>>> "MA" == Michael Albinus writes: MA> I believe it won't be too much bad feedback after people have understood MA> the change. Some years ago, the obscure /multi:ssh:host1:ssh:host2: syntax MA> was removed, even w/o an alternative. Later, the alternative MA> /ssh:host1|ssh:host2: was introduced. People did accept. MA> Of course, I'm biased, and there might have been a lot of frustration from MA> people because of that change. But then it didn't reach me. I was one of those people, I just didn't complain when multihost was changed. I'd never even heard about host1|host2 until today! I assumed multihost was forever borked and had been using .ssh/config to manage multihops. It's great to hear there's a way to use one-off multihops again. You just gave me a new feature. :) MA> Adding pure ange-ftp like syntax, as I have offered, seems to be a good MA> compromise for all of us. Yes, indeed! MA> And please take also into account, that I mean it seriously: if you insist MA> in keeping the syntax as it was, I will insist in seeing other people MA> working on Tramp. I'm the lonely maintainer since 2004, and there are no MA> remarkable contributions from somebody else except tramp-adb.el, written MA> by Juergen Hoetzel. I hear you, and I appreciate where you're coming from. On the flip side, I also have to take all Emacs users into account. Not everyone knows whats going on, or understands Tramp; and they want Emacs to just "continue working" as much as possible, even while we improve things and right old wrongs. Your proposed syntax fits this bill. In the meantime, I'll keep an eye out for people who might be willing to contribute to Tramp. It's an essential package. -- John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2