From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Filipp Gunbin Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: HTML-Info design Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 01:34:07 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87fvc858c6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87ioh4nf8k.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> <83y4pzptpx.fsf@gnu.org> <871tnr1gqo.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> <83bnmvowdb.fsf@gnu.org> <83ppbanqhe.fsf@gnu.org> <87vbl2xigp.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> <83ioh2nlow.fsf@gnu.org> <87sig6xech.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> <83fvc5ni0u.fsf@gnu.org> <87k31fwwyv.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> <87bnmq9ibf.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> <87wq5c8ybo.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> <874msg2qnf.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87tx0g858s.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1419892476 20272 80.91.229.3 (29 Dec 2014 22:34:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 22:34:36 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 29 23:34:31 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Y5itS-0007CX-Tk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 29 Dec 2014 23:34:31 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35013 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y5itS-000707-44 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 29 Dec 2014 17:34:30 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58255) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y5itE-0006uO-2j for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Dec 2014 17:34:17 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y5itA-0004yw-QI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Dec 2014 17:34:16 -0500 Original-Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.25]:43771) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y5itA-0004yg-I9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Dec 2014 17:34:12 -0500 Original-Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5E2E20C3D for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2014 17:34:10 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 29 Dec 2014 17:34:10 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= x-sasl-enc:from:to:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:content-type; s=mesmtp; bh=+of7h9S4/PVi Ku297vqvjwCaG3Q=; b=iwYn8TXQDeB36byUvsMooo3LR9BZ7uW+ngI0x6BZFBGj r8Gogn5dA1nuyJSSqQcGlCQ64oM+s7YwsAc04xQmMHMC/m27dZFIwVczjcsY1gI/ 8J5qlbNwEPbKQG3Jf2ULFE6LB6m6KAmRRT21xdsKxX8Z3UsEoEkYTc4iySZ+VAY= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=x-sasl-enc:from:to:subject:references :date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s= smtpout; bh=+of7h9S4/PViKu297vqvjwCaG3Q=; b=s400uz71Ffjo1pcpm9f+ JM6rmLBzTxtXTJ1fzk2mcO2adQs/F7wDD8SVjMU9j0//+T500my5RybTlUlUXi7u T/n7HtnvpGtrzfJ5nU51tmd5vk0kOXK2j3qo5wbslUSD1LA9nhHRbD65J38kMMuQ UFvUYAwzxNGlCHGN3JWcORg= X-Sasl-enc: KursROIcVWjikivbBchVslKvXWDsi9bhegPXYf75NaWH 1419892450 Original-Received: from fgunbin.local (unknown [178.66.168.34]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 257F4680097 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2014 17:34:10 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <87tx0g858s.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> (Nic Ferrier's message of "Sun, 28 Dec 2014 09:59:15 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (darwin) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 66.111.4.25 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:180863 Archived-At: On 28/12/2014 09:59 +0000, Nic Ferrier wrote: > David Kastrup writes: > >>> But I can promise to keep working on what I've got and making it >>> better. >>> >>> What else would I need to do? >> >> I think it might make sense trying to work out a roadmap that draws in >> some helpers eager to prove themselves. Problem with that is that those >> might want to work on more "cutting-edge" solutions rather than what >> simple browsers support. > > I never said I was supporting simple browsers. > > Emacs and HTML5 is what I am supporting. I can't see how I could support > simple browsers, by which I mean Lynx, links, e-links, w3 and even > eww. emacs-w3m is also worth mentioning. That's an enigma for me, why people generally ignore it. Is it flawed in some way? (like licensing or whatever). The approach it takes looks very natural to me: delegate html & css processing to external program (w3m) and build a good Emacs interface (emacs-w3m). Its rendering of mail messages looks more natural to me than eww's (this is not against the eww). It deals with tables very well. It allows to disable tabs to make every opened page be a usual Emacs buffer. Not to mention the ability to separately improve w3m (and get those improvements in console usage, too) and interface (improvements visible only in Emacs, of course). Generally I like the idea that tedious work in specific areas should be delegated to some existing and supported library (like xml handling to libxml2). The good example is soap-client. While it's great that some SOAP support exists in emacs, I found it unusable for JAX-WS (Java web services framework) SOAP services. I wasn't able to fix it in a reasonable amount of time (there were mostly namespace prefix - related problems AFAIR). Rather, it makes more sense to use some well-maintained library to do the core job (though, I don't know whether some exists for SOAP). This is off-topic here, I know, but this problem concerns me for a long time, and I couldn't resist, sorry. Filipp