From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: charles@aurox.ch (Charles A. Roelli) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: visual-region-mode? Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 21:22:29 +0200 Message-ID: References: <83k1nxvm5j.fsf@gnu.org> <877ejxsm18.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <874lf0oul4.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <877ejuabdt.fsf_-_@toy.adminart.net> <878t473dhg.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <87pnxii2b7.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <87k1nm7eit.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <878t403dn5.fsf@toy.adminart.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1537298364 29875 195.159.176.226 (18 Sep 2018 19:19:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 19:19:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: cpitclaudel@gmail.com, lokedhs@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: hw Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 18 21:19:20 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1g2LWm-0007YG-1I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 21:19:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42245 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g2LYs-0006Mp-Jn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 15:21:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38591) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g2LYE-0006Mk-23 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 15:20:46 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g2LYD-0003oB-9e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 15:20:45 -0400 Original-Received: from sinyavsky.aurox.ch ([2a03:2040:2:1b::1]:59754) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g2LYC-0003lF-Vq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 15:20:45 -0400 Original-Received: from sinyavsky.aurox.ch (sinyavsky.aurox.ch [127.0.0.1]) by sinyavsky.aurox.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D0522865 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 19:24:28 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: sinyavsky.aurox.ch (amavisd-new); dkim=pass reason="pass (just generated, assumed good)" header.d=aurox.ch DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=aurox.ch; h= references:subject:subject:in-reply-to:to:from:from:message-id :date:date; s=dkim; t=1537298667; x=1538162668; bh=WFUdqlPNfNig2 IC0i4DB+pJ9TimsLcxU0bO3RF3w4oY=; b=Ft5aB1mq7pz+d4UlmWShY8YSEl7N0 0TfHU48Wub56P7pH1SCtvEYNW8+7LNBox45WEY9jGfG/tcsuLdeA1h4+BFJGnRYy FFG0loS+eQ2YTOwYp23zrm7yK+nYEzbo3MfEL7TgxKyuCuxr+3h32m/1KHmExuyG QqlSSF9c0r7ieg= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at test.virtualizor.com Original-Received: from sinyavsky.aurox.ch ([127.0.0.1]) by sinyavsky.aurox.ch (sinyavsky.aurox.ch [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id fUJusOvoS4yi for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 19:24:27 +0000 (UTC) Original-Received: from gray (unknown [IPv6:2a02:1205:c693:2d60:c62c:3ff:fe30:b864]) by sinyavsky.aurox.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E8C122285A; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 19:24:26 +0000 (UTC) In-reply-to: <878t403dn5.fsf@toy.adminart.net> (message from hw on Mon, 17 Sep 2018 22:36:30 +0200) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a03:2040:2:1b::1 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229953 Archived-At: > From: hw > Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 22:36:30 +0200 > > Having clarified which operations can be used with a region doesn't mean > that working with a region can be efficiently done. It does for me. For example, see the output of M-x -region TAB. By just knowing a smidgeon of these commands, you can work very efficiently with a region, with all the documentation and help Emacs provides. If we somehow "disarm" the region by default (as you have suggested), the use of all these commands would be less efficient. > > The "hidden regions" can only be a source of error if you type, say, > > C-w or M-w at random during editing. > > What about upcase-region, downcase-region and others that don't come to > mind atm? They already clash with transient-mark-mode and are as unsafe > as C-w and M-w. Changing mark-even-if-inactive to nil is required to > prevent that --- why isn't that the default? These commands are already disabled by default. > The hidden regions mean that I always have to consider that they are > always there so that I do not make a mistake in the first place. That > makes me feel uneasy. What's the worst that could happen? We have so many ways to recover from these sorts of errors: autosaves, backups, VC, diff-buffer-with-file, ... In addition, for buffers that you think should have additional protection against accidental edits, there's "view-mode".