From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Rudolf =?utf-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On the adoption of transient.el Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2021 22:19:34 +0200 Message-ID: References: <877di4on3d.fsf@posteo.net> <87im1oy6mw.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="22969"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Gabriel , Philip Kaludercic , Yuri Khan To: Emacs developers Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 01 22:20:25 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mAHwf-0005tM-Np for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2021 22:20:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39422 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mAHwe-0008U0-K0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2021 16:20:24 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40264) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mAHw2-0007fy-4F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2021 16:19:46 -0400 Original-Received: from pv50p00im-ztdg10011901.me.com ([17.58.6.50]:51321) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mAHw0-0000O4-KZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2021 16:19:45 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=me.com; s=1a1hai; t=1627849182; bh=ebb3lLJ9feAhBXpx+9cKhHQAUt7ZL3O+VFizZZbdUJI=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=cO12L/JMTM+E+0v/Sy8GKg81nqa4Oec0X8Xh75hHy1LPUQl88JP1E4llTTME5k0n9 tfPEiWoU0YAryloHR5YLmcERpKxt1cO99HD47rl8nQ/M4SuUtgZ+YpMQ4ITQ6Y7qom imlkHYdhWIKCe88p7OaAJxw1Y99eerUMQMnYt+XeTkI4XqPmokU5TrmjQCuezRkVfo jpZEfuA83GG7KX8UyDhHQzzaMhzUSg8/C6JLvIZCXdH0mlAKYjs4jqIoCApKA9LxBb PCEPEOq2Xt8TItWNT6qXYVG9qoexAiUE1RkxS9oEdjg4MeyMGGYEdFIIz0VJdvpPBu kUgSwbpDk7cSQ== Original-Received: from Workstation.local (78-141-116-131.dynamic.orange.sk [78.141.116.131]) by pv50p00im-ztdg10011901.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D3EE7800353; Sun, 1 Aug 2021 20:19:37 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <87im1oy6mw.fsf@posteo.net> X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.790 definitions=2021-08-01_02:2021-07-30, 2021-08-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=768 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-2009150000 definitions=main-2108010144 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=17.58.6.50; envelope-from=salutis@me.com; helo=pv50p00im-ztdg10011901.me.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:271922 Archived-At: Philip Kaludercic writes: > On the other hand something has always felt off about transient,=20 > in the sense that it is breaking some expected behaviour or=20 > couldn't pin-point yet, but just unconsciously stumble over.=20 This is exactly how I feel about the "modern" interfaces in Emacs.=20 I reported a bug in Embark recently, and because I could not=20 select and copy the text, I ended up re-typing the text that was=20 right in front of me in Emacs. Say what? For me, Emacs is a=20 program where I expect to never waste time re-typing anything.=20 Magit has a similar feel to it, and I can never be sure if the=20 program will allow me to select text in the diverse parts of its=20 user interface. In my opinion, such uncertainty is bad for power=20 users. I would expect this from Apple or Microsoft software,=20 because their latest =E2=80=9CUX designers=E2=80=9D surely know better than= =20 anyone, but in Emacs? R+ --=20 Programming reliably --- must be an activity of an undeniably=20 mathematical nature [...] You see, mathematics is about thinking,=20 and doing mathematics is always trying to think as well as=20 possible. -- Edsger W. Dijkstra (1981) Rudolf Adamkovi=C4=8D=20 Studenohorsk=C3=A1 25 84103 Bratislava Slovakia=20 [he/him]