From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Gerd_M=C3=B6llmann?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: MPS: a random backtrace while toying with gdb Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2024 13:06:40 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87bk3jh8bt.fsf@localhost> <87wmm6rcv1.fsf@gmail.com> <86le2mhhsj.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38824"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Helmut Eller , pipcet@protonmail.com, yantar92@posteo.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 30 13:07:01 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sNsOa-0009tO-U4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 30 Jun 2024 13:07:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sNsON-0003xH-CL; Sun, 30 Jun 2024 07:06:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sNsOL-0003wv-Hf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Jun 2024 07:06:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ej1-x62f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::62f]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sNsOJ-0000GG-VY; Sun, 30 Jun 2024 07:06:45 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ej1-x62f.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-a72988749f0so301417966b.0; Sun, 30 Jun 2024 04:06:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1719745602; x=1720350402; darn=gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=2HY3vBYukSwRMIWjM+pQ7a6wGqSvBR/pacnOFqtTPug=; b=bIxBeIaaTpvTAK37BZIipfI38EGptuhX/M7ZbDe0gt3DlZEyw3j081z7h9hRAKy/0Q stuK94oiWCk8qt+7gnC5YV0O8Mbole5ArHy/bpkMbTAkaB9rMzmKre2vfd2zat4gJxD6 cuf0l0iztv34vP1oONr/RmH47qVs+d+K9N0WqgivL06Zm0JmlZDzekpaBYusRKU8Xp1o zKKJvMH+RaG9WNiDn208rKJmsv2c8X56xEwn9VkJozKwbD2QcTajPfUgq38Bn5r+Bpv0 1o5R9fmSfzg2kugxSGOf8F6oQeLX9EQ98EiU2LJC49BVycKvPV3MeAGv0bZseQTCi28y RHow== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1719745602; x=1720350402; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=2HY3vBYukSwRMIWjM+pQ7a6wGqSvBR/pacnOFqtTPug=; b=t0hkoJRjQeA1iUb5ztDj8GuqxaQ6+xFeXoGogFYJngwXqJTIN8XAT4U6BSwRjz3Uck Y3ctK8tNRwqJCRGKTg8nPyEGVDjVeCMDL0dBM/wCevLpmsV8KgTlZDzHxubMcR/jH3av T7Wsno2O9p9JGc+PYFYKsJuOOg4aOAI7nyOA66hqZqaTLWagr52RT2XWVZHX5x1TlFeZ 0fHyDzP8YFbaBcbFCgM1EtFFaNkb53AdyfxEYa4xt/cfXZGoJbOLZydhaWKs7Li6DZ5C GWG0vZ7qLhqD99yZqaml+nD83MzYIUSuR/G6KRfZSQikZ3BrK0Pf87dOoW8B2WPXtWUz HMQQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCXcZHS19clCyk24K9iQhJwmotUGimJK3pEse/V8i0BLymXKKjd5zmjPZC7cgMJycVs20dlTecVs9zyg6j+u5L9crksK X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzCgmELRlK4oE02ga4pd26sBqDgrAbMYiX5DrpAjhvGsfQtN2zw dPERVhJab+kYd93fcxkTPQjGjGGDMk8Qyo9AxCDyC/BJ9oBxZdCuDoB3Ww== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEl9hClD9IFsrMK+zzViHBoAutMcTgy4AFHJqiJL+kVedHu9hsGpFvtJdekDVQzLKhGeKQe5g== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:e8c:b0:a6f:5f5d:e924 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-a7514462e40mr248150866b.6.1719745601546; Sun, 30 Jun 2024 04:06:41 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from pro2.fritz.box (pd9e36a45.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [217.227.106.69]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-a72b28bda98sm199506266b.191.2024.06.30.04.06.40 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 30 Jun 2024 04:06:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <86le2mhhsj.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 30 Jun 2024 13:00:12 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::62f; envelope-from=gerd.moellmann@gmail.com; helo=mail-ej1-x62f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:320945 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Helmut Eller >> Cc: Pip Cet , Ihor Radchenko , >> emacs-devel@gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii >> Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2024 11:36:34 +0200 >>=20 >> On Sat, Jun 29 2024, Gerd M=C3=B6llmann wrote: >>=20 >> > Someone has an idea what to do with that? And maybe how to reproduce? >>=20 >> I can reproduce it with >>=20 >> /src/emacs -Q -batch -eval '(dotimes (_ 100) >> (start-process "foo" nil "sleep" "0.2") >> (igc--collect))' >>=20 >> I would move most of the work out of signal handlers. The signal >> handler could put the work in a "async work queue" and then return. The >> actual work is then processed by maybe_quit. > > But in this case we hit the barrier just by accessing the process > object. How can you do anything useful in a SIGCHLD handler if you > cannot even find out which process exited and how did it exit? > Surely, something like that is needed in order to put any work on some > queue? And I'm not even talking about the effects of deferring this > job "for later" on the speed of working with sub-processes in Emacs. > > IMO, we must find a way of touching MPS-managed memory safely from a > signal handler, otherwise writing signal handlers will become an > impossible job. FWIW, I disagree but I guess that was already clear.