From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: project.el semantics Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 09:26:28 -0800 Message-ID: References: <86pp1j4ejm.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <86pp1ixem2.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <55FAFC36.5010506@yandex.ru> <86twqrww0u.fsf_-_@stephe-leake.org> <563EA9B9.5080404@yandex.ru> <86vb9dufs0.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <563F4915.1080008@yandex.ru> <867flrbksb.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <56409F2D.9060300@yandex.ru> <86mvun9gz7.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <56415902.90103@yandex.ru> <86h9ktah9x.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <56429025.3070008@yandex.ru> <86r3jw4yrf.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <564340DC.5020008@yandex.ru> <564374E7.50600@yandex.ru> <5643B749.8030600@yandex.ru> <5643F79F.9080103@yandex.ru> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1447349271 25993 80.91.229.3 (12 Nov 2015 17:27:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 17:27:51 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Stephen Leake , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 12 18:27:45 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZwveY-000106-TE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 18:27:19 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48399 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZwveY-0007pV-CB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 12:27:18 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:48079) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zwvds-0006g9-HT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 12:26:37 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zwvdp-0007Gx-Ce for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 12:26:36 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pa0-x231.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c03::231]:34909) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zwvdp-0007Gj-7Q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 12:26:33 -0500 Original-Received: by pasz6 with SMTP id z6so73249249pas.2 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 09:26:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version:content-type; bh=9Ak7wHv2z5914O/JUc+o2egReQ2dFiaZGkuoMldL9RA=; b=a1Aq7dWjiHgtRY4bpRHCIrtLYmym2GgagOZ/a3k+lEq6McgEwzv3Wi0ZdlclduZNmE N5VEM+c6t9PiwVMHSobJplIF6tJz+LtaBcHZaxyEAirqJQjw/LtXqcvW8y5YcdF/N+ty +b+NJkQ6dFcjV9/kvfxMT+ys89m8SXo/FCVF1H3tWxzIlihgMCC07WN1c/si/2ZQ6i35 rGDhj4daEUSVec7XYY87a6umIAhj9TI3WNOdHV8gYqdIfagpUQvdfZYGUwpngSP+pZL9 kLadaPwo1S6L6bG24USKQcwalEU6JlXsFsLKjE4wwcGTqMnUKnwq/bg2exmoplhKJ6XR RCjA== X-Received: by 10.66.162.38 with SMTP id xx6mr24213176pab.57.1447349192259; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 09:26:32 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Vulcan.attlocal.net (76-234-68-79.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.68.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id oi3sm15797646pbb.53.2015.11.12.09.26.31 (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 12 Nov 2015 09:26:31 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Original-From: "John Wiegley" Original-Received: by Vulcan.attlocal.net (Postfix, from userid 501) id 96D48105738D2; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 09:26:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5643F79F.9080103@yandex.ru> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Thu, 12 Nov 2015 04:21:19 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (darwin) Mail-Followup-To: Dmitry Gutov , Stephen Leake , emacs-devel@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c03::231 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:194257 Archived-At: >>>>> Dmitry Gutov writes: > "Project libraries" paint a quick and simple picture. Which, I imagine, > might be good for the first adopters of the API. I'm not going to hold on > tight to it, but please keep in mind that simple is often good. Simple in this case might also be misleading, since "libraries" has a very particular connotation, whereas the functionality we're talking about could be about so much more than libraries. > project-find-functions being explicitly documented to depend only on the > directory, but not on the contents of the current buffer, is a conscious > decision: I don't want to see foo.el belong to one project, and README.md > lying nearby in the same dir, to another, from the standpoint of this API. > Do you disagree? Yes, I do. This type of decision shouldn't be baked into the core API -- it should be provided as a default configuration that *uses* that API. I'm not opposed to what you want to achieve -- far from it. I just want to get there a different way, which will leave open a wider road for future changes. Right now, project.el is "baking in" a lot of decisions that I don't see as necessary at that level. What I'm suggesting is a more general API, plus a set of defaults, where the *end result* is likely to behave much like what you've proposed. > I don't really see the end result from your description. Judging from just > that message, you either want to remove project-library-roots and add a > bunch of some other accessors instead, or remove all current cl-defgeneric > declarations and declare each project to be a hash-table, using some sets of > keys, both predefined (?) and not, and documented to have files and > directories as values. The first option is simply vague, the second one, > well, writing code for it would definitely be more error-prone: currently, > if you mistype the name of a generic function, at least you get a warning. > > You'll have to give more specifics either way. I think we've reached the point where it is clear that project.el, as stated, is not ready for inclusion in 25.1. I _really do_ want a module like this, I just want something broader. This sort of module is key to my IDE vision, which is why I care so much about getting this right. I would like to remove project.el from the source tree for now, and move it to a feature branch for further discussion and development. I understand this is disappointing, but I'm fairly certain you'll be happier with where we end up down the road. I intend the very same functionality you're proposing now, but in a way that will allow many more cool things besides. John