From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: lax matching is not a great default behavior Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 08:51:21 -0800 Message-ID: References: <837fl2qzs2.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1448909691 30943 80.91.229.3 (30 Nov 2015 18:54:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 18:54:51 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Drew Adams , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 30 19:54:45 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1a3Tb3-000848-4V for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 30 Nov 2015 19:54:45 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42814 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a3Tb2-0005h5-Gj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 30 Nov 2015 13:54:44 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57802) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a3TZm-0003vm-EK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Nov 2015 13:53:27 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a3TZl-0006Y2-Dr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Nov 2015 13:53:26 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-qk0-x229.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400d:c09::229]:33620) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a3TZi-0006Vz-7H; Mon, 30 Nov 2015 13:53:22 -0500 Original-Received: by qkas77 with SMTP id s77so63233588qka.0; Mon, 30 Nov 2015 10:53:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version:content-type; bh=b7D8rri0kCLKr1FOuSUsE/KvNn9+tW6BaPgqf0ii0os=; b=xv9nC4YCXoIrj1OXgvNClB9IHUbEAl2MWlLHxHjzFtYt7C8jRq64xE2/9Rbw2xWC19 pkZF+mSTlcWsbdjLS8wQYJVhe7s8nS0uO+hyC4lSB9J8oUA84c9z7U5AuRHmn9cr7Pd2 V/TjtZLFRFdmQlWQkJpM3wY9g/SQDeUCIQXfsw4qUnjCuj+gpEUxmCaRv0y6HXu2K2n4 8BadJJg0a8Fb8j8eXtILtmr887+Gh0KE1NYEf2CdLdZ9bwrW/2VFU5sg6jmX1k58KvVT FLE6vbiAN6X1OjK6iuf2OdnZQRaz9TU5icJBxiz3OyBs1FlRXb+YA6qpBTtqxxxYpDBa QzxA== X-Received: by 10.55.215.76 with SMTP id m73mr75491301qki.16.1448909601438; Mon, 30 Nov 2015 10:53:21 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Hermes-2.local (mail.johnwiegley.com. [208.82.103.192]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c80sm15506849qkj.4.2015.11.30.10.53.18 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 30 Nov 2015 10:53:19 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Original-From: "John Wiegley" Original-Received: by Hermes-2.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 2B8F94A4EA70; Mon, 30 Nov 2015 12:51:17 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <837fl2qzs2.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 28 Nov 2015 10:44:13 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (darwin) Mail-Followup-To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams , emacs-devel@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400d:c09::229 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:195636 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain >>>>> Eli Zaretskii writes: > I will repeat up front what I've already said numerous time in other similar > discussions: arguing about defaults in Emacs is largely a waste of time. It > usually fails to produce any real effect except tremendous loss of time and > energy. I agree with Eli that our development efforts are not well spent discussing defaults already in the wild. For two major reasons: 1. We don't actually know what newcomers find useful. There are different sorts of newcomers, with different expectations, so every decision is good for some and worse for others. 2. "That ship has sailed." Everyone now used to the existing default would have to learn (a) why their Emacs just broke, and (b) how to fix it. And in many cases, the cause is far from the cure. If a change in defaults can be backed by serious evidence that we made a huge error in judgment in the past, I'd consider it. But if it's more of a shot in the dark based on personal preferences, we should leave it alone. John --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGcBAEBCgAGBQJWXH6JAAoJEMFE2PTxn+YwW3kMAMnlHuabDqO6jZZHko+khh7K usxhDFOTojs9iCec6j5iDJ9QiUdrAgwM1Z53I0KbQXIS8IFQfDolIKfq544iFCVJ JX7xZytoZgrUMktLPJqBY+VhheCG4vh2UqqibzrzpegOqcMbq1CUJ/IpAzI9OC3+ kPbQdzHNqlIlzN50cGHkwJ3206LZ2OepDjDLVTvhLz9LlC0a1ZMZ3FZXjHQL3lQ7 dx/sob4lymKdItbZNyVZDKMk1UMQCMf6fh0XZz6JW0RKnXH80zpNFa5tDjcOBA3i R2Q9JkNAnb1BpygWN4Q5EK7qFRwyR3NSAtc+90JLoZ0I1yI8N1w8UMXe6SQJX/AT r60QhytysZvF5+0Jp64fAU20MYimAOq7CDSDUVii5ND19j9EiKydNj6ZPnx5orgW O07LJX1ZqMLqAfDObwEe5S0i6gu1GOkX9H9Z1uJ+/Po0HmLwdTf7PywmXKYfKIrJ jeQuULz16BHWra5DzwvdbKgCU49n/EaI0176o9H+Cg== =Gbuk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--