From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Robert Pluim Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28, Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 18:01:36 +0200 Message-ID: References: <20200910231420.kvqg6ohvxetpup5c.ref@Ergus> <20200910231420.kvqg6ohvxetpup5c@Ergus> <875z8lhz3p.fsf@gmail.com> <83tuw4hkad.fsf@gnu.org> <83tuw4flzy.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7s4fier.fsf@gnu.org> <83d02sfh58.fsf@gnu.org> <83a6xwf9ym.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="26549"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Ergus , caiohcs0@gmail.com, emacs-devel , rekado@elephly.net, Stefan Monnier , ghe@sdf.org, Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams To: Thibaut Verron Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 14 18:15:01 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kHr88-0006nP-3q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 18:15:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35230 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHr87-0003EL-48 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 12:14:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53004) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHqvG-0005Aj-4J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 12:01:42 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x42e.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42e]:34146) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHqvE-00014k-1d; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 12:01:41 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x42e.google.com with SMTP id t10so266214wrv.1; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 09:01:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=yAD+OvUeTbuqoApaDxsBWbt4Z9888K97QZ9M7HhEJDo=; b=lcdO5Sj2fknA0I6lT+pmWLWpYmol3IHkvsRcgUwk2EcjYiyLb1h3KXGJEBWJ8YRQV0 IGyhujlk+yXydQttUG7MrWAoh63ejgVr3s2esnDH8KBZx4w64gZ5l4qRHXbwsQ8RxBGZ nJZNe1fT9UPVBNHNDvAnuqeis2MPOBxjI62GdT9COIxDehkn7pQWFjnGkWQDhds+URyO UgFexxpdQ51mcoEJ17MCypJALewDesJAaVAHFXcBx1+5c+rxhglQlVR8sgaOBXok/tms 2Cfx5/v71EA8W4H9ZPhbknL2xDJ4osJf9NpooUzKewnPWdtmunJH3mmjtmOrltCIM3i0 0Xsg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=yAD+OvUeTbuqoApaDxsBWbt4Z9888K97QZ9M7HhEJDo=; b=IRUpk87d3CADBKJXlzxQBdzGg7OwiL/Hc2hiuOXYZp8rt5vFdIfnpyv4R6vh/PfoGf ChZxPYSetFPLeCkw3aprBQC2gdGNvcQ7b/+j0JJWqLvMQznYoAUHp+ZJg8O2pWb2DyPa J0RI6FpWcD5tFrvHiqKqNweE1SM60bxIhy/ok9WOpc7cWHJ+meNLC1miZ4V+9zApF0UF zwsw4icpEUKdBoRVYAbp78Kd6C+onQ7OK5EgWG4Vi2XphXwM2O55/1Kxje1jkw9JBf0m TakCdp3crpT2xBiEDnr/Ttpxfe0i4mQo/XaAGqtZMP0AuqrpbrEMjLCUgbBK3gSKI6KL CCDQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531F7IEdB/+xjclv5yCdzbMxcoui/MJepp038FtuNvIMYlcGxg0I gXWs73Z5RjUZA2Zj84espMM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxTWBpZwxdXLwHOF5DteZ0xZQYMb8lYZiydbGPiwlgn0Q3uSXjlRi6mjrHA87zH1wOSHClKoA== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4910:: with SMTP id x16mr17969280wrq.204.1600099297921; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 09:01:37 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from rpluim-mac ([2a01:e34:ecfc:a860:5055:7f7f:92a2:59ec]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s26sm20721947wmh.44.2020.09.14.09.01.36 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 14 Sep 2020 09:01:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Thibaut Verron's message of "Mon, 14 Sep 2020 16:53:07 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42e; envelope-from=rpluim@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x42e.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255658 Archived-At: >>>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2020 16:53:07 +0200, Thibaut Verron said: Thibaut> The save button runs save-buffer, so it should DTRT already, n= o? >>=20 >> Sorry, yes. The 'new' button forces you to choose a filename for the >> buffer, so saving it works (that will teach me to talk about features >> I don=CA=BCt use) Thibaut> I think that you missed a message in the long thread. No doubt. It=CA=BCs a *very* long thread. Thibaut> To clarify, currently, the "new" button is "find-file", so it = does Thibaut> expect a file name and a path. Thibaut> The suggestion is to maybe replace it with a function creating= an Thibaut> anonymous buffer, leaving the choice of a path (if necessary) = to the Thibaut> point of saving. Thibaut> In essence, something like >> (defun my/new-buffer () >> (interactive) >> (let ((buffer (generate-new-buffer "*unnamed*"))) >> (pop-to-buffer buffer) >> (setq buffer-offer-save 'always))) Oh. Is that what non-emacs-experienced users really expect? Thibaut> Save-buffer should still work as expected, just as if you were= calling Thibaut> it from a normal non-file buffer, and so should save-some-buff= ers and Thibaut> the like. Thibaut> But kill-buffer will not offer to save, as of now, as you poin= ted out. Right, so if we find a good way to fix that it=CA=BCs fine, although I=CA= =BCm not sure whether there=CA=BCs any good reason for us to do it other than 'other programs do it' ; the current behaviour seems consistent enough. >>=20 Thibaut> Restoring them as-is is what notepad++ does (or did when I las= t used it Thibaut> 10 years ago). I personally did not like this behavior, and I = didn't have Thibaut> remotely as many open files in notepad++ as I do in a typical = emacs session. >>=20 >> It=CA=BCs a behaviour that=CA=BCs become strongly expected, mainly b= ecause >> people have become conditioned to 'restart where I left off' behavio= ur >> from web browsers, I suspect. Thibaut> There are packages going in that direction, if you are interes= ted, but Thibaut> it is really a complicated matter. Anonymous user-generated bu= ffers Thibaut> are not the biggest problem there. Web-browsers can just reloa= d the Thibaut> content of most of their "buffers", that's a luxury emacs does= not Thibaut> have. >> The toolbar does not let you create such buffers (I thought it did, >> but it doesn=CA=BCt). Thibaut> That illustrates how confusing the current situation is, I bel= ieve. :) Only to people who create buffers, and then later decide whether to put stuff in a file. That=CA=BCs not your typical newcomer to emacs. Robert