From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Gerd_M=C3=B6llmann?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 21:12:49 +0100 Message-ID: References: <320999cc-6c83-2315-0044-cc0403400af3@gutov.dev> <9ab5d2bd-a648-cae0-a4a7-ae86be10af0f@gutov.dev> <87r0kuqxbf.fsf@gmail.com> <54e115a2-fc36-3056-a030-0dbf32416ddb@gutov.dev> <43f290b0-4119-597b-c89a-0fb4c7db1665@gutov.dev> <1e7fe1ef-af7d-3222-7b9e-b569b3c97ccf@gutov.dev> <22e4cb4d-a8f3-1530-881d-b8c59c5d969b@gutov.dev> <339b58d6-5a44-8393-c2cd-4c935147dde3@gutov.dev> <877cmhrcsf.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="18584"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Dmitry Gutov , Eli Zaretskii , michael_heerdegen@web.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 16 21:13:35 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r3ik2-0004jd-Qv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 16 Nov 2023 21:13:34 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r3ijW-0003ac-1p; Thu, 16 Nov 2023 15:13:02 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r3ijV-0003aP-9q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Nov 2023 15:13:01 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-x134.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::134]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r3ijQ-0007JG-7M; Thu, 16 Nov 2023 15:13:01 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x134.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-507973f3b65so1753127e87.3; Thu, 16 Nov 2023 12:12:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1700165572; x=1700770372; darn=gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=r+YAFOyWByjSkOuvmjMHujktDePGu09VM8K4VHHZyfY=; b=RW7+U6V6iDrunlzum9CWG4WIJS55L3r4/c19HunXJVetk8uqnfDMHMP+WCWYPcEZwG gyHQwEDNoHg0i/jjUK8fHWvIeIXQpSxZRyIv1jSHovwGMyem9vJYuN9xlC4Znn+Gt+MS yQii9+qwk4Qbd4hwMBVTvRBPT21ENWaZEiCPftwZYPsyOhAfKri45Tl2YmA2AIJhXYaO g04LF8uVKbKuYG1poxYwiduKao2leDMLVDS35+GSsstmUeItL+Gap+EHlMskofzYjeI6 mOTrP6Y4cFA8lOstB9QAbR5Q479xtWRtNj4psOrzPTfNirt1LCLJasDyyIBL92p+ocQ3 bvMg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1700165572; x=1700770372; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=r+YAFOyWByjSkOuvmjMHujktDePGu09VM8K4VHHZyfY=; b=QjX6wsw90R1v/1aQH4HXljuFDdPLIK3bfr3uCaTpJZVB6ZhH+t8JmFKYWspttLuHjJ z/R39e5pzUqOkxp//aod2/tFUmt2sJmmbTPBAwf32+9YnSSUZRUY160NHqyYi4vTLoPI ym5B1eMfp/EszCnYgMekJPbW78A2O4JIlPMqCbb8RGy8o5nPQlloayu25KdQqknfHIJH zIsSNK1ZhIUtUxgZdpcGINjO7sZcv2Bn99sZF65sEeLHAa8rjTsNJXTlvf4Hu7BIGWeg //ESyN0F8Q1xhaCvPBufZ99I15dnqEJ8UM50z5dFV+NvJZcCLSNoGvnj+rr4r5F7mmXv aPEw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw0t5u9WBJNUmvpbRpoSNyrKT3dEWkZOyznlUDsPm1dHwGDtUG7 DOFsH/qOP0jp3d2L4ky15f3+l/ca1F0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFjpqnEBZUlgpLqu0Av07WgL7XbGJFjAbc2rkqz6mG3sNbq42UpyLBf1bbsHJvnQgg9sQSlwA== X-Received: by 2002:ac2:57cf:0:b0:4fe:347d:7c4b with SMTP id k15-20020ac257cf000000b004fe347d7c4bmr11083242lfo.7.1700165571852; Thu, 16 Nov 2023 12:12:51 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Pro.fritz.box (pd9e3628d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [217.227.98.141]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a15-20020a194f4f000000b005079994a9e2sm8085lfk.252.2023.11.16.12.12.50 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 16 Nov 2023 12:12:51 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: (=?utf-8?Q?=22Jo=C3=A3o_T=C3=A1vora=22's?= message of "Thu, 16 Nov 2023 20:06:57 +0000") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::134; envelope-from=gerd.moellmann@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x134.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312836 Archived-At: Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora writes: > On Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 5:44=E2=80=AFPM Gerd M=C3=B6llmann wrote: >> >> Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora writes: >> >> > AFTER loading it >> > >> > ... >> >> The magnitude of the difference when additional methods are defined I >> find surprising. > > Speaking of that, be sure to reproduce my results. These are results > from an Emacs -Q run, and fortunately they are consistent across runs > in the same machine. In my normal work session, I sometimes get much > more dramatic slowdowns with these very same benchmarks, and I don't > know why, maybe some garbage collection effect? Yeah, please see my other mail, I've looked into cl-generics a bit. Not that I could explain anything now :-)