From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Can we go GTK-only? Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2016 15:07:31 -0700 Message-ID: References: <24db2975-17ca-ad01-20c8-df12071fa89a@dancol.org> <4615E73A-19E2-4B79-9889-D3FA686DDDE6@raeburn.org> <83bmy0pl8p.fsf@gnu.org> <831sywp7ew.fsf@gnu.org> <83y413nsjm.fsf@gnu.org> <83funbnngl.fsf@gnu.org> <83d1ifnmto.fsf@gnu.org> <20161101152027.5e94b6cc@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <83ziljm0ei.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1478210942 30254 195.159.176.226 (3 Nov 2016 22:09:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2016 22:09:02 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/25.1.50 (darwin) Cc: dancol@dancol.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, raeburn@raeburn.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, "Perry E. Metzger" To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 03 23:08:57 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c2QBq-0006t4-6Q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 03 Nov 2016 23:08:54 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35362 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c2QBs-0001iX-3b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 03 Nov 2016 18:08:56 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53531) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c2QAh-0001Cx-JX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Nov 2016 18:07:44 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c2QAg-0003M0-HW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Nov 2016 18:07:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pf0-x22e.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22e]:33403) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c2QAb-0003Kg-60; Thu, 03 Nov 2016 18:07:37 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pf0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id d2so38484912pfd.0; Thu, 03 Nov 2016 15:07:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version; bh=CBfu18UaqEEPlaBGGKAZJfQsbURFfnZMcuTCZP3G3Cg=; b=zlV0C87xz/QIp/vTDczTKntQkwhiBCU0VY27iBmxrlWPzSvmvcTz9nRVR+x6e1cIGN 6u14KAwZzYrLEZSs8ywRLZ+a4+nb6H5+2Nz/LdEv3GmZZam833bMOp4Mth2GCgrP00iS LoKv87eRhpCf9JnxKvVZ4ZldbPyqBWfF5X6ekFG/ohWIQrz30m5P4HFcoCO+EmH+sRUa v4YJMQsyEfsWrDCMrYmAFV5ASEBiIR0GtS9PnuKLiXSn7kzTSsfBHzLmyRfxox3o44LU yDfsjMqWiwqZQmAkmeSlvHL1x9lk9MtaNTD+EcFLkcPTQWQKw4Hin26C4tfifwmXdDO/ 1vMA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :references:user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version; bh=CBfu18UaqEEPlaBGGKAZJfQsbURFfnZMcuTCZP3G3Cg=; b=gj9O9xIJXqcEm8zzcmkPm7M82xZgfMxySvlzxJPdTI+dlonjLLJwsJwuzTdlGHYcq7 tsvK3Aqh7OWBkj8O67JuHnn3zbVqTdJHpGYJ8BIhSMsWitnYT0SMfeV7vPZvVFKoorfo AWgxxFepDz4xPUXCOiinKZXF9SiR+crYcbSYJHIVpO7PbabvA5BDK2SVtSYdTGjfmVN7 hPjQZDYp7WGqVt3DkQwKhPU66T4kcS5wDgwi8YF4ew7qY+grcam/uIC/j7VSBPolVbPp uS4kQQSrCaN6/7+376FROV8FGAJXo52lYumsYslHyiYijtVbNTAAi7VEQc03Bwu/H7zG isNg== X-Gm-Message-State: ABUngvfKTZ772wgHod29CJvNXnmsLh9zVys3E4VkQuQthDpTppUoPpH2lOo6H8bqlEX48Q== X-Received: by 10.98.138.219 with SMTP id o88mr20821516pfk.52.1478210856198; Thu, 03 Nov 2016 15:07:36 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-69-149.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.69.149]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m69sm14951163pfg.39.2016.11.03.15.07.35 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 03 Nov 2016 15:07:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Original-From: John Wiegley Original-Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 2BA7936DC752; Thu, 3 Nov 2016 15:07:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (John Wiegley's message of "Thu, 03 Nov 2016 11:07:14 -0700") Mail-Followup-To: Eli Zaretskii , "Perry E. Metzger" , dancol@dancol.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, raeburn@raeburn.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:209139 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>>>> John Wiegley writes: > To everyone: If you can't phrase your disagreements and observations in > calm, rational language, then please refrain. We should be speaking to ea= ch > other as though we were what we are: computer professionals who know what > we're doing, and who all want Emacs to succeed. Hi everyone, It was brought up to me by a kind soul on IRC that my response to this thre= ad was very one-sided, as if I were defending only Eli and, by implication, saying that others in this thread (Paul, Daniel, Perry, Stefan, primarily) were the ones being defensive and disrespectful. I did not come here to say that Eli was right. I came to say that discourag= ing a contributor is *always wrong*. I love all of you, because you give your t= ime and energy freely to make my favorite piece of software in the world work well. I don't want to see anyone become discouraged, ever. And when it happens, I will fight back. Each side has valid points in this discussion, but we are not making progre= ss. Eli has concerns, which automatically means that I share those concerns, because this is how we work together. Others want evidence, and I agree that we should find this evidence. If malloc is, or is not, thread-safe enough f= or Emacs, is a great question that I'd like to see resolved. I apologize if I came across as saying that everyone else should just pack = up and go home because the Great Maintainer Hath Spoken. My argument is with t= he damaging nature of tone. We can too easily damage enthusiasm on this mailing list, where tempers flare and words come cheap. Yet enthusiasm is the most valuable commodity we have, since volunteerism is our only path to progress. So to Paul, Daniel, Perry, Stefan and the rest: I hear you, you don't want = us to reject the use of malloc out of hand. To Eli: I hear you, experience has given you pause, and while you don't have all the URLs ready at hand, you don't want us to ignore your gut just yet. Perhaps we can return to the original thread, asking if we can go GTK-only, since it was going so well for 34 messages, before these next 61 took us do= wn a darker road. =2D-=20 John Wiegley GPG fingerprint =3D 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGbBAEBCgAGBQJYG7UjAAoJEMFE2PTxn+YwOk0L9iZRb2DkfncsjHC36nl5k18y J3uFdbpOxyswnm3ZCw8ax5cD7fruZfSPyoPXUWkXPEFVzGXNfC69gvqDQ3xHXTTd DqjKtV8dL56IrvvA1FZHke2mSJmH14Xq79E2ygqtkzqL/EI+rOTHtN1VfaUlxY0I KxLv1FqHYA3AWn/bIhdfKcw2siv4K1QJOOrqwjentGUsch0MpR7anNxYm9LBdtKC ejuZTWdXzPvAulspN2LCqkzaLJurdneA0psjl42dp8vhxf8DGKZIfi31O5lthV3a lhXpFAZ9sr1S7TwjLwwQpTKS31UJMf9+qsAhpQJy6jw7CkLMssL6CcTciFOnqA7w +91zCLs0j1C+I7exIfk25lrnq7jXvWOmauiH7mp8+UVDa04DXr+csXlt1+tYv7bA q5X/tUxUh9I5X4vfLkZIfcGE9M5zahO95Eh6rm3ONNnYnKnEuhuvntImDBxsxAxc zyBY/Vh6WIQkb6TCcLFrIseOkzLOQkWOnrtLR3OS =+UmT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--